Sir Thomas Picton statue to be removed from Cardiff City Hall

[WJ99mobile]

Let's be honest here

Loads of the people who argue for these statues to be left up dont do it because they want people to be educated , they dont want them protected from vandalism because it's part of history , they dont give a toss about future generations

They previously knew next to nothing about these despicable people

They want them preserved because they are fecking daft racists , it's that simple

I originally didn’t want to see it removed and wasn’t to do (in my opinion) with racism. I like seeing statues for its aesthetic values. Whenever me and the mrs go away I always take note, pictures and read the plaques of the history of the statues. Always liked going through Cathays park to go past the statue there. If Picton was removed what would be there instead? And at what cost to the public.

When it’s historical, it’s so far removed from life, for me the good and the bad doesn’t come into it? Would I look and read a statue of Genghis Khan, or Nero? Absolutely. I can still be disgusted by the person whilst in awe of the history behind it. I’ve been to the killing fields in Cambodia and sat and looked at the wall of skulls. It’s fascinating and yet it’s disgusting. For me if it’s contextualised, it’s different. It’s so far removed from my life I don’t believe it does anything than just reflect history.

Then I’d try to think how I’d feel if it was more recent history. Take Michael Jackson. One of the most brilliant musicians of all time, he tackled climate change 20 years before most, countless charities like aids, cancer but a wrong’un it seems. Would I be happy with a statue of him up now? Absolutely not. It’s complicated where people remove themselves from the bad that didn’t affect them. Ironically a staunch BLM supporter Dave Chappelle, kind of gave support to MJ in his sticks and stones special. Admittedly MJ was never convicted.

My personal view is that these people because they don’t see or encounter racism, don’t fold that into the thinking. They just see it as a statue.

I’m not longer against the removal of the statue but I don’t want the thinking to become a tit-for-tat whataboutisms. Everything should be on merit but the parameters of what is merit is constantly shifting.

[cyril evans awaydays]

I originally didn’t want to see it removed and wasn’t to do (in my opinion) with racism. I like seeing statues for its aesthetic values. Whenever me and the mrs go away I always take note, pictures and read the plaques of the history of the statues. Always liked going through Cathays park to go past the statue there. If Picton was removed what would be there instead? And at what cost to the public.

When it’s historical, it’s so far removed from life, for me the good and the bad doesn’t come into it? Would I look and read a statue of Genghis Khan, or Nero? Absolutely. I can still be disgusted by the person whilst in awe of the history behind it. I’ve been to the killing fields in Cambodia and sat and looked at the wall of skulls. It’s fascinating and yet it’s disgusting. For me if it’s contextualised, it’s different. It’s so far removed from my life I don’t believe it does anything than just reflect history.

Then I’d try to think how I’d feel if it was more recent history. Take Michael Jackson. One of the most brilliant musicians of all time, he tackled climate change 20 years before most, countless charities like aids, cancer but a wrong’un it seems. Would I be happy with a statue of him up now? Absolutely not. It’s complicated where people remove themselves from the bad that didn’t affect them. Ironically a staunch BLM supporter Dave Chappelle, kind of gave support to MJ in his sticks and stones special. Admittedly MJ was never convicted.

My personal view is that these people because they don’t see or encounter racism, don’t fold that into the thinking. They just see it as a statue.

I’m not longer against the removal of the statue but I don’t want the thinking to become a tit-for-tat whataboutisms. Everything should be on merit but the parameters of what is merit is constantly shifting.

I agree with your thoughtful points and some others (including LoM's surprisingly!)

In the last Euro Qualifying campaign game in Budapest I went to Memento Park on the outskirts of the city. Fascinating place where many of the statues from the Soviet era that survived the wall coming down have been placed. It's curiosity factor is however placed in the context of the impact that era had on Hungary and its citizens so you are left in no doubt of the underlying evil the statues were trying to glorify.

Contextualising these statues either in their location or another as others have said seems as an appropriate response as their mothballing or destruction as public opinion or regimes change.

On the particular Picton statue it is interesting that there was seemingly no appetite to glorify him in the immediate aftermath of Waterloo. Perhaps even then the proximity of the Abolition of Slavery in Britain and his known sadistic acts were too close and well-known.

Rather a century later almost at the anniversary of his death at a time when the country was in the middle of another terrible continental war and his feats of valour were still remembered when his sins were forgotten did his statue get commissioned and erected. Perhaps in his case another century on is an appropriate time to consider he has had a good run at immortality given his treatment of others.

[Sloop_Jon_Bee]

I originally didn’t want to see it removed and wasn’t to do (in my opinion) with racism. I like seeing statues for its aesthetic values. Whenever me and the mrs go away I always take note, pictures and read the plaques of the history of the statues. Always liked going through Cathays park to go past the statue there. If Picton was removed what would be there instead? And at what cost to the public.

When it’s historical, it’s so far removed from life, for me the good and the bad doesn’t come into it? Would I look and read a statue of Genghis Khan, or Nero? Absolutely. I can still be disgusted by the person whilst in awe of the history behind it. I’ve been to the killing fields in Cambodia and sat and looked at the wall of skulls. It’s fascinating and yet it’s disgusting. For me if it’s contextualised, it’s different. It’s so far removed from my life I don’t believe it does anything than just reflect history.

Then I’d try to think how I’d feel if it was more recent history. Take Michael Jackson. One of the most brilliant musicians of all time, he tackled climate change 20 years before most, countless charities like aids, cancer but a wrong’un it seems. Would I be happy with a statue of him up now? Absolutely not. It’s complicated where people remove themselves from the bad that didn’t affect them. Ironically a staunch BLM supporter Dave Chappelle, kind of gave support to MJ in his sticks and stones special. Admittedly MJ was never convicted.

My personal view is that these people because they don’t see or encounter racism, don’t fold that into the thinking. They just see it as a statue.

I’m not longer against the removal of the statue but I don’t want the thinking to become a tit-for-tat whataboutisms. Everything should be on merit but the parameters of what is merit is constantly shifting.

A very good post My personal stance is to leave the statue where it is, and maybe put some information up about his connection/activities with the despicable slave trade. From info an e-mail i received recently the Picton statue was gifted to the people of Wales by David Alfred Thomas, 1st Viscount Rhondda and the statue was chosen through public ballot through a competition run by The Western Mail. And was for his heroic efforts at the battle of waterloo, and not because of anything he contributed to the community as a result of profits from slave trading. I am afraid and fear people will be tempted to engage in the tit-for-tat whataboutisms. I wonder how many khmers would like to tear up the tin-shed shrine/cremation site of Pol pot in the mountains Anlong veng, and S21 but don't because there would be nothing to remind people of his and his regimes racism and madness.
I was all for putting my full support behind the BLM and joining in in Barry a few weeks ago, but i felt the defacing of Churchill's statue the day before was well out of order. I am and will always be anti racist, but will not take part in protests or be involved in mob hatred.
Spedger