Pubs

[NYCBlue]

How is it the government's fault that socializing with family and friends is not safe? I'll admit that both your government and our outgoing administration has not done the best job. The situation is exacerbated here by the size of the country and the rights of states.

It was obvious that there was going to be a second wave of Covid as soon as the weather changed. Scientists have been warning about it for months. A country as small and densely populated as the UK should be in lockdown. It wouldn't be the best thing for everyone on an individual basis, but it would be best for everyone as a whole. So the government tries to make concessions. Things go wrong. So they change the rules. People shouldn't be going into pubs. A place where strangers congregate and drink intoxicating beverages. But they want to. So the government had to make rules. Pubs were to be closed at 10pm and everyone lost their shit. "It's ridiculous". "What's the difference between 10pm and 12am?" I should imagine there's a pretty significant difference. And I should imagine there is data to back it up.

Your faith in most people is admirable. But don't forget the Welsh government was elected by a majority. The UK government England a depressingly huge one. And don't forget Brexit.

I don't live in Trumpland by the way. And pretty soon no one else will.

[The Lone Gunman]

Your faith in most people is admirable.

I have very little faith in most people. Indeed, I have very little faith in our species, full stop. However, having been to a couple of pubs and restaurants on a small handful of occasions since this crap began, I can testify that a large majority of the people who were present were being as careful as possible, and the staff at the venues themselves had done pretty much everything asked of them in terms of social distancing measures.

We had a two-week national lockdown here in Wales a short while ago. That was supposed to 'save Christmas' and give us a bit more freedom until the New Year at least. It hasn't.

As for your claim that there is data to back up the decisions the governments are making, that has long since ceased to be the case. These muppets stopped 'following the science' months ago. And that's according to the scientists themselves.

[Tuerto]

I have very little faith in most people. Indeed, I have very little faith in our species, full stop. However, having been to a couple of pubs and restaurants on a small handful of occasions since this crap began, I can testify that a large majority of the people who were present were being as careful as possible, and the staff at the venues themselves had done pretty much everything asked of them in terms of social distancing measures.

We had a two-week national lockdown here in Wales a short while ago. That was supposed to 'save Christmas' and give us a bit more freedom until the New Year at least. It hasn't.

As for your claim that there is data to back up the decisions the governments are making, that has long since ceased to be the case. These muppets stopped 'following the science' months ago. And that's according to the scientists themselves.

There has to be data or expert opinion based on facts. Whether they're correct or not is another thing altogether.

[The Lone Gunman]

There has to be data or expert opinion based on facts. Whether they're correct or not is another thing altogether.

Drakeford himself has stated that the biggest problem by a distance in Wales is household transmission. The evidence that transmission is occurring at any significant rate in pubs and restaurants is thin to put it mildly - the paper the WAG used to justify their recent firebreak lockdown confirmed as much.

You'll remember a couple of weeks ago that I was upset when the noble First Minister and his merry men deemed that the Welsh public couldn't be trusted to meet one another on a socially-distanced basis in each other's gardens. This meant I couldn't visit my terminally ill sister-in-law and, more importantly, most of her closest friends couldn't visit her either. It was, however, fine for people to meet up with others from up to four households in pubs and restaurants. The theory apparently was that the pubs and restaurants are such regulated environments at present that the risk of transmission in such settings was very slim. Nevertheless, here we are a couple of weeks further down the line and those places are shut again anyway.

As you know, I went to my local for the first time in months on a midweek evening a couple of weeks ago. It was like a military operation - table booked in advance, full details of me and my mate logged, table service only, plastic screens up between tables, masks required when using the toilets, etc. To be honest, it wasn't much fun, but it was good to see my friend again and I felt confident that the chance of picking up the virus from anyone except him was absolute zero. I was supposed to be seeing Kate for the first time since February on Saturday, but Drakeford's put a stop to that. I know I'm biased as I cannot stand the man, but this latest measure seems totally over the top to me.

[Tuerto]

Drakeford himself has stated that the biggest problem by a distance in Wales is household transmission. The evidence that transmission is occurring at any significant rate in pubs and restaurants is thin to put it mildly - the paper the WAG used to justify their recent firebreak lockdown confirmed as much.

You'll remember a couple of weeks ago that I was upset when the noble First Minister and his merry men deemed that the Welsh public couldn't be trusted to meet one another on a socially-distanced basis in each other's gardens. This meant I couldn't visit my terminally ill sister-in-law and, more importantly, most of her closest friends couldn't visit her either. It was, however, fine for people to meet up with others from up to four households in pubs and restaurants. The theory apparently was that the pubs and restaurants are such regulated environments at present that the risk of transmission in such settings was very slim. Nevertheless, here we are a couple of weeks further down the line and those places are shut again anyway.

As you know, I went to my local for the first time in months on a midweek evening a couple of weeks ago. It was like a military operation - table booked in advance, full details of me and my mate logged, table service only, plastic screens up between tables, masks required when using the toilets, etc. To be honest, it wasn't much fun, but it was good to see my friend again and I felt confident that the chance of picking up the virus from anyone except him was absolute zero. I was supposed to be seeing Kate for the first time since February on Saturday, but Drakeford's put a stop to that. I know I'm biased as I cannot stand the man, but this latest measure seems totally over the top to me.

Could well be over the top, i'm not disputing that, i've not read up on anything to be honest in order to sway my opinion. I would have thought (like delm alluded to) that the issue is much greater in the city centre bars, pubs, especially in the suburbs are essentially restaurants now, i'm sure that they can be regulated.

I do have some sympathy with Drakeford though, even with that prick Boris, mistakes are going to be made, the info isn't always going to add up etc. Drakeford is certainly more cautious. I'd like to see what he's basing his decision making on before i have a concrete opinion. Most people have had a **** full, but i don't think that anecdotal evidence based on preference helps anyone. We have to trust the scientists and medical bods.

[delmbox]

I have very little faith in most people. Indeed, I have very little faith in our species, full stop. However, having been to a couple of pubs and restaurants on a small handful of occasions since this crap began, I can testify that a large majority of the people who were present were being as careful as possible, and the staff at the venues themselves had done pretty much everything asked of them in terms of social distancing measures.

We've never met but thanks to years on this board I think I know your rough demographic so I'm going to take a punt and assume that the times you've been to the pub have been similar to mine, i.e not down St Mary's St at night on a weekend, where I think it's a very different story.

It's incredibly unfair that local pubs are being punished when they're doing things properly though, a lot won't survive this latest round of rules

[Tuerto]

We've never met but thanks to years on this board I think I know your rough demographic so I'm going to take a punt and assume that the times you've been to the pub have been similar to mine, i.e not down St Mary's St at night on a weekend, where I think it's a very different story.

It's incredibly unfair that local pubs are being punished when they're doing things properly though, a lot won't survive this latest round of rules

There are grants available, whether or not they're enough to cover staff and other costs isn't something i know. The other issue is bosses who are using this pandemic as an excuse to bail out, reduce staff (many of whom are on zero hour contracts and minimum wage) Because they're not making enough for the shareholders -see Toby carvery-Harvester-Like they have no responsibility towards their staff, and that twat who runs Wetherspoons, ****ing about with workers conditions etc, while taking taxpayers cash. I do feel for the independents, sole traders etc. I just hope that these grants can keep them afloat and that when this shit is over that there is a boom in hospitality so that they can claw back whatever is lost.

[xsnaggle]

There are grants available, whether or not they're enough to cover staff and other costs isn't something i know. The other issue is bosses who are using this pandemic as an excuse to bail out, reduce staff (many of whom are on zero hour contracts and minimum wage) Because they're not making enough for the shareholders -see Toby carvery-Harvester-Like they have no responsibility towards their staff, and that twat who runs Wetherspoons, ****ing about with workers conditions etc, while taking taxpayers cash. I do feel for the independents, sole traders etc. I just hope that these grants can keep them afloat and that when this shit is over that there is a boom in hospitality so that they can claw back whatever is lost.

It's not just about grants for owners, it is also about people who work all week and only get the weekend to pop to the pub and relax and have a few beers in a covid-controlled atmosphere. Instead people will give more profits to supermarkets and lash it up in each others houses and nothing will change.

Hasn't anyone noticed that once again the closure isn't for 2 weeks but 17 days. That is deliberately measured to take in 3 weekends when most restaurants and pubs do their business. It doesn't affect any other businesses in the same way so the 3 weekend scam can only be targeting one part of the economy.

[life on mars]

It's not just about grants for owners, it is also about people who work all week and only get the weekend to pop to the pub and relax and have a few beers in a covid-controlled atmosphere. Instead people will give more profits to supermarkets and lash it up in each others houses and nothing will change.

Hasn't anyone noticed that once again the closure isn't for 2 weeks but 17 days. That is deliberately measured to take in 3 weekends when most restaurants and pubs do their business. It doesn't affect any other businesses in the same way so the 3 weekend scam can only be targeting one part of the economy.

its also about young folk working and say in Uni, , earning some keep behind a bar , to help their families that cannot afford to support them , the pub is also an emotional support for some lonely single folk , there are moral issues at stake and perhaps ones of liberty and choice

[Tuerto]

It's not just about grants for owners, it is also about people who work all week and only get the weekend to pop to the pub and relax and have a few beers in a covid-controlled atmosphere. Instead people will give more profits to supermarkets and lash it up in each others houses and nothing will change.

Hasn't anyone noticed that once again the closure isn't for 2 weeks but 17 days. That is deliberately measured to take in 3 weekends when most restaurants and pubs do their business. It doesn't affect any other businesses in the same way so the 3 weekend scam can only be targeting one part of the economy.

I couldn't care less about people who want to have a pint on the weekend.

[xsnaggle]

I couldn't care less about people who want to have a pint on the weekend.

That is obvious. Just because you don't yourself.

[The Lone Gunman]

We've never met but thanks to years on this board I think I know your rough demographic so I'm going to take a punt and assume that the times you've been to the pub have been similar to mine, i.e not down St Mary's St at night on a weekend, where I think it's a very different story.

Indeed, and if that's the case then shut the city and town centres from 6:00pm. But don't shut the entire country's pubs and restaurants down just because you can.

It's a pity the city council aren't in charge of this. Those twats would close down the city centre in a heartbeat given a chance.

[life on mars]

Indeed, and if that's the case then shut the city and town centres from 6:00pm. But don't shut the entire country's pubs and restaurants down just because you can.

It's a pity the city council aren't in charge of this. Those twats would close down the city centre in a heartbeat given a chance.

You got my vote as have all the well run local pubs and landlords and patrons who know how to behave across Wales its a disgusting decision and a shameful gutlessness one

[delmbox]

Indeed, and if that's the case then shut the city and town centres from 6:00pm. But don't shut the entire country's pubs and restaurants down just because you can.

It's a pity the city council aren't in charge of this. Those twats would close down the city centre in a heartbeat given a chance.

It does seem unfair but it's probably true that if you shut down the city and town centres at 6pm and leave the quieter outskirts pubs open until late you'll have those full of young drinkers on a night out once town's shut

[Optimistic Nick]

But don't forget the Welsh government was elected by a majority. The UK government England a depressingly huge one. And don't forget Brexit.

Not really relevant but this is not true- 43% is not a majority.

Nobody can relly say with any certainty whether "most" people are sticking to the rules or not, but I strongly suspect that most people are. Yes there are idiots who don't believe in science and/or are just dickheads, but I think they get disproportionate attention.

[NYCBlue]

Not really relevant but this is not true- 43% is not a majority.

Nobody can relly say with any certainty whether "most" people are sticking to the rules or not, but I strongly suspect that most people are. Yes there are idiots who don't believe in science and/or are just dickheads, but I think they get disproportionate attention.

Unfortunately, it's a majority of people who bothered.

[Optimistic Nick]

Unfortunately, it's a majority of people who bothered.

No, it isn't. The Tories got 43% of total votes. FPTP means they have a commanding majority in the commons but less than half of those who cast a vote, picked them.