My dear old mum sadly passed now was a lovely , gentle , poor but generous charitable lady , who voted Tory all her life , nastiness never crossed her mind.Originally Posted by jon1959
Just saying.
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My dear old mum sadly passed now was a lovely , gentle , poor but generous charitable lady , who voted Tory all her life , nastiness never crossed her mind.
Just saying.
She voted for the party that a former Conservative Prime Minister described as the “nasty party” then.
To go back to the original point, there are always exceptions, for example, my mum was a Tory until she was a thirty and then she heard Harold McMillan telling she’d never had it so good and immediately became a Labour voter who became more left wing as she got older, but I’d say that, generally speaking, people become more right wing/selfish as they get older.
why is it selfish? This is something the left continually trot out about conservative voters, but conservatism isn't about self at all - that's a myth peddled by the left who think they are somehow making those on the right feel bad.
Having a party that promotes individual freedoms, actively encourages business and maintains the institutions of society isn't selfish, its going about things a different way.
Your comment is lazy and is akin to saying Labour voters are work shy preferring to receive benefits off the back of those that work.
Left and right are two different approaches to the same problem, none are perfect, on some occasions left wing approaches work, on others right wing approaches do. you'd have to be pretty naive to think only one method is better than the other - if it was, governments all over the world would be adherents to that particular approach.
A few points in reply, your response suggests that what I said rattled your cage a bit, also you’ve spent a decade and more telling us on here that right is right, so it’s hard to reconcile you with being the reasonable man in the middle seeing both sides of the argument. However, although I do associate Conservatism with greed (I’ve always thought there is a dividing line between aspiration and greed, but it can be a thin one) and always will do, I was also making a general point that people tend to get more selfish/self absorbed as they get older - I have to admit I have.
not at all, just passing comment that you repeat this point ad nauseum
and given the majority of those posters on here are myopic left wingers, take a wild guess why that was?
its easier to adopt the opinion that all politicians are self serving wankers, no matter whether they are on the left or right. all are equally bereft of empathy for the common man.
hardly surprising as earning potential diminishes as you get older, and you want stability in old age. The same can be said that a lot of young people are dreamers who believe they can change the world. they may as well believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden
So, you’re either saying that you now think what you told us for a decade and more was wrong or, alternatively, it was a wind up - either way, it’s hard to place much faith in what you say now.
not quite a wind up, just ruffling a few feathers for those who refuse to see the wood for the trees.
as for your final comment, given your lack of faith in whatever was written previously, status quo ante bellum springs to mind.
I have gone the other way. I am far more mindful of other people as I get older - and am also more mindful of those who live on the breadline.
Me too. Something we agree on.
Yeah, maybe I was a little bit harsh on myself, because you have reminded me that I do my, little, bit for those worse off than me every week as well, but I'd still say I'm not as generous spirited as I was, say, twenty five years ago.
Well done to you for being able to maintain such an outlook at your very advanced age - what is it again, you're about a week older than me aren't you
Laughing here, TOBW. I honestly become happier with each year that passes. Our lifespan is finite and that becomes more evident as we get older - and I always thought that reaching 60 was all that I could expect from the Almighty who I don't believe inYeah, maybe I was a little bit harsh on myself, because you have reminded me that I do my, little, bit for those worse off than me every week as well, but I'd still say I'm not as generous spirited as I was, say, twenty five years ago.
Well done to you for being able to maintain such an outlook at your very advanced age - what is it again, you're about a week older than me aren't you
(In fact, I cashed in my superannuation when I was 20 as I didn't think I would live this long!).
Every year beyond 60 is a bonus and I am fortunate that I will still travel to some of the wackiest places on the planet when normal life resumes and that I have got my health and enough money to live on.
Having been to many very poor countries and seeing people living off collecting plastic bottles on rubbish tips and sleeping on the side of busy streets and without even owning a pair of shoes I realise how very fortunate we are in having been born into one of the world's richest countries. On the other hand, I will retire in the coming weeks and not have to worry financially until I shed my mortal coil.
Understandably, I don't really want to descend into a poor mental or physical state and if the gods permit me another 5 years of globetrotting, walking, attending gigs and City matches I will be happy as Larry. As the Grim Reaper gets closer I will cram more and more in to every week, month and year.
Now go and cheer up, you old bugger. You're not a bad egg really
Just imagine what life could be like if we rejected the idea of left and right and just worked together to solve problems ....oh!
VERY GOOD POST
On what basis?
Saying 'Having a party that promotes individual freedoms, actively encourages business, and maintains the institutions of society isn't selfish, it's going about things a different way' is completely incorrect. Why? A party can do all those things and still be selfish at the same time. In fact, it could be argued that doing those things are the most selfish of all. It can't be argued that because a party does those things it is good for everyone and the environment. It can (and in my opinion) make things much worse.
Going about things a different way? That really doesn't stack up on any level. If we all tried to use that argument we could justify anything.
And I don't understand the part'akin to saying Labour voters are work-shy preferring to receive benefits off the back of those that work' - the first point argues an ideology the second point is an insult.
I think your frame of reference might be a few years out of date if you are you talking about the Conservative party.
perhaps, but traditional conservatism is about those very things, and whilst the blue corner today may not be a fully paid up member, its about as good as we have hence why some people with conservative values still vote for the blues.
And here's an example of modern conservatism of the sort Eric Cartman was referring to, it's not a good luck and, in this case especially given the person's background, "greed" seems a more appropriate word to use than selfishness.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-david-cameron
Clearly, out of the people who vote, there are more who vote Conservative than for any other party, but, even in a landslide, there are more who vote against them than for them - throw in those who did not vote in 2019 and the Conservatives don't look as impregnable as they currently seem. The trouble is there is no credible opposition to the Conservatives in terms of forming a possible UK Government with the party best placed to do so, Labour, showing yet again that they appear to place greater emphasis on internal disputes than they do in trying to represent the tens of millions who do not want this Government.
Sludge started this thread calling for a new left of centre party to, essentially, replace Labour, but, I'd rather see an anti Conservative coalition fight the Tories at the next election. The Greens and Lib Dems have some experience where one of their candidates stood aside to give the one with the better chance of winning more of an opportunity, but Labour and the Nationalist parties would have to join in for it to stand any chance of succeeding and I guess that's where the problems start - as someone who was fully persuaded as to the need for some sort of proportional representation at the time of the 2011 referendum, I believe more than ever that a huge opportunity to rid the country of the sort of politics we've seen since then was lost.
David Cameron won't be the first ex-PM to use that position to line his own pockets after office and he won't be the last. Cameron is a bum fluff beginner compared to Blair and Brown in this respect, but then I'm not against former PM's making money after public service. After all, they took a job where the pay really is not commensurate with the position and responsibility. The article is mere petty politicking, and serves no purpose other than Tory bashing. It adds nothing to the political debate although the anti Tories such as yourself lap it up as somehow being relevant. It is not.
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