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Bit in bold is so spot on.Originally Posted by ninian opinian
I'll be honest, the ceremony and theatre of it all means nothing to me and probably detracts from the meaning. I think it's probably a positive to take a moment to remember the causes and effects of war but it doesn't feel like lessons have been or are being learnt so all rather pointless.
How about taking the knee for Black Lives Matter protesters whilst Sarah Everard protestors were hauled to the ground?
It's so mad. If someone sent a monkey emoji to a footballer on Instagram you would rightly be up in arms. But someone drives down the street waving a Palestinian flag saying 'fk the jews and rape their daughters' and it's the messenger you call pathetic!
Honestly, the inability to call out stuff like this only makes it worse.
And yeah, it is a pretty good example to explain why some people (not you, obviously) are scared and why many feel there may be something in it that the justice system appears to be inconsistent.
The pathetic messenger, that's you, splattered this appalling case of hate crime a year ago as a prime example of how Braverman's pathetic attempt to undermine her own Prime Minister and further her own leadership ambitions by questioning the independent integrity of the Police in this case had some kind of credibility.
I ask again, what did the Police and CPS do in this case that you think was so wrong?
You think it's normal to not take something like that to trial do you? You think that's a good sign? You think that helps the communities on the end of their violent racist rants?
There's numerous examples cited. This is the one you have picked up on. There's the calls for Jihad, the imam in Greenwich wanting to purify a place of Jews, the cries for jihad on the streets..
It all builds up into a picture where some people are going to question law enforcement and question whether the police are taking this seriously and question the motivation of some people on the marches. That's my point. You don't even seem to recognise the issue.
In this case - take it to court and get a jury involved, IMO.
So your bugbear, as much as I can gather, is with the CPS decision not to prosecute following the arrests by the Police. Notwithstanding the Jewish organisation involved recognising the reasons for not prosecuting, what did the Police do in your gotcha case that shows they were applying different standards in a way that the current Home Secretary/you* (delete as appropriate) might recognise?
Sorry to butt in - but you appear to have adopted the Daily Mail definition of Jihad without question. I don't know the intention of the small number of people who have used that term in or near to the regular Palestine demonstrations, but I wouldn't look to the Daily Mail - or to you - to provide any insight or clarity.
It might mean 'holy war' in the way you have implied. But it usually doesn't.
“Jihad” literally means striving, or doing one's utmost. Within Islam, there are two basic theological understandings of the word: The “Greater Jihad” is the struggle against the lower self – the struggle to purify one's heart, do good, avoid evil and make oneself a better person.
https://www.learningforjustice.org/m...etter%20person.
In its most general meaning, jihad refers to the obligation incumbent on all Muslims, individuals and the community, to follow and realize God's will: to lead a virtuous life and to extend the Islamic community through preaching, education, example, writing, etc.
https://www.unaoc.org/repository/Esp...oly_Unholy.pdf
Maybe best to stick to those incidents where the words and actions of a very small minority are clear examples of antisemitism and should be denounced. Denounced in the way that the Palestine demonstration organisers have done at every turn! Then you could turn you attention to also denouncing the many examples of support for genocide, war crimes and islamophobia (i.e. racism) that have been coming from politicians, commentators and demonstrators who place themselves on the other side of this conflict. Just for the purpose of 'balance' of course!
I don't have a 'bugbear'. I am making a point about a small element attached to some of these marches. I fully understand why lots of Jews (and Muslims) are scared in the UK at the moment I fully understand that a small number of very unpleasant groups are attaching themselves to peace marches and I fully understand that many will perceive there to be a justice system that seems to be treating different groups in different ways. There's numerous illustrations and examples to back those points up.
My bugbear, if I have one, is more with people who cannot see it, don't care, make apologies for it for it otherwise downplay it.
Because the wider cause is supported there is a lot of heads in the sand and I think that should be called out.
I'm sure you have had better Friday evenings than trying to justify the use of calls for Jihad from groups such as Hizb ut-Tahrir on our streets..I know I have!
All the best if you go to a march tomorrow. I hope it will be peaceful and respectful. I know that's what the majority attending wish for. 👍
Don't be a clown James. I am not justifying any 'calls' but I do get annoyed when you use the attack lines of Islamophobic red tops to push your love-in with Suella Braverman and all the Little Englanders she is dog whistling. Your informed and educated interpretation may be right - if you have correctly identified the people chanting a slogan with membership of a particular organisation - but there is every chance it is not!
Every rally and march I have been on has been peaceful and respectful - and big and angry too.
I hope and expect that all the marches tomorrow will be the same! Jewish and ex-forces marchers are expecting record turn outs!
Things like this and the demonstrations I’ve read about against Netanyahu in Israel offer hope. Too many people seeing the conflict as a case of goodies against baddies when I see no goodies in Hamas or this Israeli Government.
Proof that Sue Ellen has stirred up the far right.
Threatening the use of crossbows FFS.
https://hopenothate.org.uk/2023/11/1...-this-weekend/
It's not being a clown Jon. There's serious issues at play and in another scenario there's no way on earth you would tolerate them, and we both know that, and it's not islamphobic to call out the kind of things cited in this thread, which I have always been at pains to label a small minority.
Have a good day tomorrow. If it's calling for peace and not particularly taking sides, there's little to argue with.
I hope there is a good turn out from Jewish groups too.
I think there are two variations of Jihad meaning which have evolved over the years:
https://www.unaoc.org/repository/Esp...oly_Unholy.pdf
It wouldn't surprise me if she's not bothered about being sacked, or reshuffled out of the cabinet. She, like the rest of the cabinet, will not be in position in 12 months time anyway, so she's doing a good job of positioning herself on the right of the party ahead of any leadership vote.
She'll be more popular with the party members, but will have to get through to the final 2 first voted by the MPs, which might be more difficult.
Army of the hopeless
What a bunch of tarts
Looks like the main thugs today are the far right football variety. Who would have guessed?
She was “dreaming of this” last night no doubt. She’s would em up,and set them against the police. SACK HER NOW!!!
Possession of a knife , offensive weapons , drugs , assaulting a emergency worker
God bless em , protecting our country
Police put the Palestine march today at over 300,000.
The Press Association says 800,000.
It looked enormous
Counter protestors chanting 'You're not English anymore'.
*laughing *
Racist JamesWales?
Absolute ****ing beauts.
On balance it appears the huge numbers of people on the march were well behaved
And the small number of far right protesters were not
Chanted at the police I believe? Probably more based on their (incorrect) assessment that they let their country down etc. May be racist. What do you think?
Why are you asking me anyway? I have consistently pointed out that singing anti-semitic songs is racist. Cos it is. Not sure you've accepted that yet, mind.
I personally don't condone any racism from either side.
Do you think any issues might have been instigated by the Homd secretary?
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