Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

[City123]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

We're underperforming as for some reason we've decided to completely abandon the midfield not once, but twice. That's on the manager.

We've got a decent squad, like Pearcey said you don't fluke results for 7 years, even without Bale and Ramsey we can put out an XI almost entirely made up of top flight players with plenty of these being 25 or under, we've also got talented youngsters to come through. Sure we won't get another Bale, but in terms of depth this is certainly a step up on what we had even in 2016 (we were bringing on Simon Church)

[City123]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

Ampadu was fine, as you say he was playing centre midfield virtually on his own. I don't know about there being many 'new kids on the block', though. It's a very thin squad with barely half a dozen decent players.

That's an over exaggeration and you know it. If that were true we'd have finished 4th in our qualifying group rather than 2nd and beating two very good sides in the playoffs

[Harry Bosch]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

We have been in the top 20 on merit. You don’t fluke results for 7 years.
There also needs to be some context here.
Scotland are currently ranked 40 and moving upwards. In their entire history they haven’t reached the knocked out stages of a single major tournament. We did that in successive Euro tournaments.

Context also applies in where and when we played Iran. The game was played on the hottest day of the tournament in the middle of the afternoon in a stadium of mainly Iranian supporters. How would that game have panned out on a cold, wet and windy afternoon in Ireland in front of mainly Welsh supporters? I think it would have been very different. Football is played throughout the year.

We have massively overachieved. How many countries with smaller populations have achieved what we have? The emphasis is on the word “smaller” here and not similar or slightly greater.

We are now likely to drop down the rankings as our best players retire. There is no shame in that. This has been a golden period for Welsh football with so many highs. There are now likely to be plenty of lows but we are used to that. However we will still have some highs and need to enjoy them when they occur.

I think this is an excellent post. I really do feel that the conditions are being overlooked, or not being taken fully into consideration. Anything less than peak physical condition will and has been magnified. I think we are far from crap, I think we have just suffered, as always, from a lack of numbers to pick from from and real quality amongst those numbers. In my mind Rob Page has come in for some harsh criticism and has made decisions based on the whole picture and all of the information. He has done what he thought was best I'm sure. It's all too easy for us fans to sit at home and pick our teams based on players operating at peak performance. We forget that it is highly unlikely a manager will be able to field 11 players who are "at it". We have achieved qualification for 3 tournaments from 4 because we deserved to on merit. Now we are entering a transition phase and results will continue to tail off in the short term I suspect. My hope is that blooding more youngsters now will pay dividends down the line. Yes some players have under-performed but we are not crap. England failed to beat a good USA side and essentially matched our result. Are they crap too? Of course not. We need to get behind the boys and hope they give us a send off that they will be proud of when they hang up the international boots for good.

[MacAdder]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

We have been in the top 20 on merit. You don’t fluke results for 7 years.
There also needs to be some context here.
Scotland are currently ranked 40 and moving upwards. In their entire history they haven’t reached the knocked out stages of a single major tournament. We did that in successive Euro tournaments.

Context also applies in where and when we played Iran. The game was played on the hottest day of the tournament in the middle of the afternoon in a stadium of mainly Iranian supporters. How would that game have panned out on a cold, wet and windy afternoon in Ireland in front of mainly Welsh supporters? I think it would have been very different. Football is played throughout the year.

We have massively overachieved. How many countries with smaller populations have achieved what we have? The emphasis is on the word “smaller” here and not similar or slightly greater.

We are now likely to drop down the rankings as our best players retire. There is no shame in that. This has been a golden period for Welsh football with so many highs. There are now likely to be plenty of lows but we are used to that. However we will still have some highs and need to enjoy them when they occur.

Good post.

Also, I think it is harsh to single out players for their performance just as it is to blame the manager for his choice of player.

Many think Page got it wrong against Iran preferring to play our unfit top boys.
Should he have let the kids go toe to toe with their fitter players?
Perhaps.
Should Page have played a different system?
Almost certainly yes.
Would we have beaten Iran if we had played different players and a different system?
Personally I doubt it.

There are very few mugs at this world cup.

[MacAdder]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

I think this is an excellent post. I really do feel that the conditions are being overlooked, or not being taken fully into consideration. Anything less than peak physical condition will and has been magnified. I think we are far from crap, I think we have just suffered, as always, from a lack of numbers to pick from from and real quality amongst those numbers. In my mind Rob Page has come in for some harsh criticism and has made decisions based on the whole picture and all of the information. He has done what he thought was best I'm sure. It's all too easy for us fans to sit at home and pick our teams based on players operating at peak performance. We forget that it is highly unlikely a manager will be able to field 11 players who are "at it". We have achieved qualification for 3 tournaments from 4 because we deserved to on merit. Now we are entering a transition phase and results will continue to tail off in the short term I suspect. My hope is that blooding more youngsters now will pay dividends down the line. Yes some players have under-performed but we are not crap. England failed to beat a good USA side and essentially matched our result. Are they crap too? Of course not. We need to get behind the boys and hope they give us a send off that they will be proud of when they hang up the international boots for good.

:thumbup:

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

It’s certainly not the strongest squad we have had, particularly in midfield we have next to no one. I personally think Ampadu has been exceptional considering he seems to be the only one in midfield. For me it’s down to page though, we have been poor for quite some time. The Ukraine can feel unlucky not to get here the way they have a hell of a performance against us. I think mistake after mistake for page. The “game plan” is just totally missing, I don’t think the team selection has been right. It’s madness Bale has played every minute and been totally ineffective.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

I think Page is crap tbh. Not my kind of manager and way too one of the lads. It doesn't work.

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

We've underperformed by being crap. Rob Page has currently managed us in six games at major tournaments and we've played well once.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

I think we have a fairly average squad and we've certainly underperformed in this tournament. In my opinion, mismanagement has definitely been a factor.

[Vindec]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

Page can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. With a mix of players from various lower leagues playing against better teams what did we expect?

[City123]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

Page can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. With a mix of players from various lower leagues playing against better teams what did we expect?

Various lower leagues? These are the starting XIs we've put out and the leagues they play in:

Hennessey - Premier League
Roberts - Championship
Mepham - Premier League
Rodon - Ligue 1
Davies - Premier League
Williams - Premier League
Ampadu - Serie A
Ramsey - Ligue 1
Wilson - Premier League
Bale - MLS
James/Moore - Premier League

Here's Iran by contrast:

Hosseini - Iranian league
Mohammadi - Greek Superleague
Pouraliganji - Iranian league
Hosseini - Turkish Superleague
Rezaeian - Iranian league
Hajsafi - Greek Superleague
Ezatolahi - Danish Superleague
Nourollahi - Saudi league
Taremi - Portuguese top flight
Gholizadeh - Belgian top flight
Azmoun - Bundesliga

Our squad is solid enough to not get ripped apart by the side above and yet they were, thanks in no small part to Page completely abandoning the midfield for the second consecutive match. There are obviously other factors, but we were wide open through the middle against both the US and Iran

[Vindec]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

Various lower leagues? These are the starting XIs we've put out and the leagues they play in:

Hennessey - Premier League
Roberts - Championship
Mepham - Premier League
Rodon - Ligue 1
Davies - Premier League
Williams - Premier League
Ampadu - Serie A
Ramsey - Ligue 1
Wilson - Premier League
Bale - MLS
James/Moore - Premier League

Here's Iran by contrast:

Hosseini - Iranian league
Mohammadi - Greek Superleague
Pouraliganji - Iranian league
Hosseini - Turkish Superleague
Rezaeian - Iranian league
Hajsafi - Greek Superleague
Ezatolahi - Danish Superleague
Nourollahi - Saudi league
Taremi - Portuguese top flight
Gholizadeh - Belgian top flight
Azmoun - Bundesliga

Our squad is solid enough to not get ripped apart by the side above and yet they were, thanks in no small part to Page completely abandoning the midfield for the second consecutive match. There are obviously other factors, but we were wide open through the middle against both the US and Iran

Not all of the Welsh players are regulars for their clubs.

[UNDERHILL1927]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

Under performing, I would have been disappointed had a kids team given the ball away as much as we did against Iran, awful.

[Cardiff Ultra]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

Underperforming for me Clive.

I think Page will look back on his decision to change the midfield set up with regret. Ampadu has been holding the fort on his own frankly as Ramsey has been so off the pace. As others have said I think the heat (especially the Iran game played at midday) has exposed just how little football Bale and Rambo have had in the last few years. You can crtiscuse Page for persisting with them but im sure the same people wpuld have crucified him if hed left them out and we'd lost.

Long term though I dont share the doom and gloom. There are a lot of good players in this squad under the age of 30 plus David Brooks to come back. Also I genuinely think Colwill will have a big part to play in the coming years. We may struggle to qualify for the next few tournaments but theres zero chance of returning to the bad old days of Gould and Smith when we struggled to beat the minnows.

I think the success of the last 8 years has built a base for football in Wales that we havent seen in decades. Hopefully the amount of engagement and participation will mean that we can keep producing enough talent to keep us competitive and enable us to not have to wait to for 64 years to qualify for another world cup.

[ToTaL ITK]

Re: Are Wales crap, under-performing or a mixture of both?

I think we're the worst team i've seen there. No effort and poor skills