Reply With QuoteBut why in a language that isn't native to them?Originally Posted by Canton Kev
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Plenty of the current national team players have familial ties outside of Wales and Europe.
Johnson and Roberts - Jamaica
Ampadu - Ghana
Thomas - Sierra Leone
Cabango - Angola
Matondo - DR Congo
You've got to start somewhere. Surely it's better to do things like this to try and reach out to those people who might be second and third generation immigrants rather than ignore them because there's a limited connection in those communities.
But why in a language that isn't native to them?
Totally agree.
You'd have to ask someone that fits that identity.
I'd bet a penny to pound there's more of a welsh identity within those communities now than there was in the glory days of you drinking down the docks.
Exactly!
(oops, second time I've said that in this thread!)
Well, I'll take your word for it.
By the way - they were pleasant days, I'm not sure about "glory days".
Well I imagine it's to reflect bilingualism, in the same way the Welsh league pyramid is the "Cymru Premier/South/North" etc rather than either the Welsh Premier or Uwch Cynghrair Cymru
I'm confused what your point is? You said it was wishful thinking that ethnic minorities identify with Wales.
So if the same black woman had been painted in a Wales shirt, showing her support for the Welsh team but the slogan was "My Wales, My Shirt" are you saying that mural would resonate with ethnic minority Welsh fans but the current one doesn't?
For a lot of second generation immigrants English isn't their first language either.
The mural is of the woman in the shirt, the text is pretty redundant. The message of the piece and what the artist/project wanted to convey can still be understood without the text.
But that format isn't how bilingualism officially works, is it.
How do you mean?
"
So if the same black woman had been painted in a Wales shirt, showing her support for the Welsh team but the slogan was "My Wales, My Shirt" are you saying that mural would resonate with ethnic minority Welsh fans but the current one doesn't"
No, neither would resonate.
What do you see whenever you use an ATM, look at traffic road signs or get a household bill?
... It's Welsh first, followed by the English translation - not a mishmash of both in the same text.
Yes, but that's not the only way it has to work, particularly in a less formal setting. One name using both languages is a very easy way to reflect bilingualism in Wales, same with dropping in the occasional Welsh/English word in slogans etc as seen here, quite a nice, easy way to reflect the multiple identities in Wales
In your opinion.
There's at least 6 players in the current national team with ethnic minority backgrounds and there's plenty of non white fans at Cardiff and Wales games. Cardiff alone has 75k+ non white residents and Wales has around 200k.
Your opinion that ethnic minorities don't identify with Wales is apparently based on your experiences from people down the docks 30+ years ago. How many of them have since had kids or grandkids who have spent their entire lives in Wales. Watching and reading Welsh media, supporting Welsh sports, working and living with Welsh people, etc?
My grandparents consist of Scots and Irish, I certainly have a liking for the 2 nations, but for me Wales comes first. Why wouldn't that apply to the thousands of people who come from non white families?
I didn't know that about the Welsh league. Another load of bollocks. A reflection of bilingualism? I doubt it.
The Welsh FA are determined to shove this Cymru nonsense down our throats, aren't they? I wonder if they genuinely believe it's a popular move? I haven't spoken to anyone so far who thinks it's a good idea, although in fairness I should confess that I've largely lost interest in following the Welsh national team anyway. As soon as they started rolling out Dafydd bloody Iwan and adopting his dreadful dirge as some sort of an anthem, my time was up.
Yes
No
Why is it bollocks?
Cardiff is a crap city at celebrating its past and Butetown was the area below the bridge for many years
Cardiff has a rich multicultural heritage but the movers and shakers only bleat on about it when it's to their advantage
The redevelopment of Cardiff docklands was great for the yuppies and the Wales millennium centre and the politicians but half a mile away in the tower blocks ?
Well they ain't benefitted at all
But you can go down there for a pint and pretend everything's great
Plenty of Butetown people didn't feel welcome in the rest of Cardiff, never mind outside of the city itself !
I just think it sucks. To me, it looks and sounds stupid and it's just a case of pandering to a minority as far as I'm concerned. Pretending we're something we're not. After all, the vast majority of Welsh football fans (and players for that matter) are not Welsh speakers, unless you count being able to sing bits of the anthem and a few lines of Iwan's nonsense.
I'm firm in the belief that this sort of thing turns more people off than it attracts, and the timing couldn't be much worse. After all, given the team's hopeless efforts in the World Cup and the shape of the current squad, Wales are going to need all the support they can get in the coming years.
What are we debating now ?
I am lost
I imagine the percentage of match going Welsh fans who speak a certain level of Welsh is higher than average tbh, I certainly wouldn't say the "vast majority" don't speak Welsh. You also don't have to speak Welsh to have a level of affinity with the language, the most recent poll I could find saw 83% of non-Welsh speakers saying they are proud of the Welsh language. This stuff is pretty minor to be honest, I really don't see how it's being shoved down people's throats. If the FAW refused to engage in English at all then I'd agree with you, but they aren't, they're just throwing in occasional Welsh words. I do think they need to be careful moving forwards though
It was the players that wanted Dafydd Iwan to be pushed, they used to listen to his music pre game. I was really surprised when he popped up by the pitch, but the renditions of Yma o Hyd in the stadium were incredible. Wales has changed a lot, if you'd told me 10 years ago that Dafydd Iwan would be singing with Gareth Bale on the pitch I'd have called you mad, but we are where we are
Should you wear a daffodil or a leek, I think Sludge.
I think you care more than 99% of people.
Apart from the word "Cymru" there is very little Welsh used in any of the FAW's media.
The last FAW tweet with Welsh was Jan 10th which is to say Diolch to Bale. There's been 20+ tweets since without a word of Welsh.
The FAW website, the YouTube channels, the social media, the email correspondence, matchday programmes, pre match and half time entertainment, etc is all overwhelmingly in English first and foremost.
The anthem is the only time Welsh is given more time than English but that's nothing to do with the FAW.
Yes the FAW pushed Yma O Hyd, but it wouldn't have been a success without support from the fans wanting to sing it. Compare Men of Harlech at Cardiff games to Yma O Hyd at Wales games. After just a few games of Yma O Hyd being played at the CCS the entire stadium was singing along and (mostly) knew the words. With it even starting unprompted during games.
Men of Harlech has been played down the City for as long as I can remember and most people don't sing, they just clap at the appropriate time. Even during games it's only been a recent development over the last 5-10 years people actually sing the words instead of just "doooo dodo do doo doo"
You can only speak from experience, and literally none of the Welsh supporters I've ever attended games with can speak Welsh. Not a one, and we're talking a fair number of people down the years. I do have a few friends who are fluent Welsh speakers and ardent supporters of the national team, they're fanatical and go everywhere with Wales, but I don't actually go to games with them.
The recent evolution of the team's support has been interesting. I know a fair number of Wales fans who used to travel away regularly, but who no longer even bother with the home games. The whole experience seems to have evolved into something they're not entirely comfortable with. I'm a bit different as although I've attended a great many games at various levels since the mid-Seventies, I always did so more out of a sense duty than anything else. I haven't been to game since 2019 and I haven't missed it as international football has never really done it for me. A Welsh team including a number of Englishmen kind of defeats the purpose as far as I'm concerned. It's become an extension of club football in many respects, with players regularly being 'signed' by countries they're not really connected to.
The flip side of the above is that I know a number of people who are following Wales now but never did years ago, and they seem to really enjoy it, so it's swings and roundabouts I guess. But what it's become is just not for me. Although ironically, I bought a nice Cymru 2023 calendar for £2.99 in WH Smith today.
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