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Have a read of this :-
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...-list-26293907
Now we know where all our money is going. A couple of things that stand out for me - One of the NHS boards chief executives (Aneurin Bevan) is getting a total remuneration of pushing £500000 pa, including pension contributions alone of £290000 pa !! Also read through some of the very creative (non) job descriptions - one of the Welsh Government ones is ‘Director General of Qualifications’, whatever the hell that is and he is getting the princely sum of £180000 a year for the privilege of holding that position. The Clerk of the Senedd also gets over £200000 pa. and Drakeford gets over £200000 pa. No wonder they are all smiling. Its obscene. The saying ‘pigs with their noses in the trough’ comes to mind. Someone add it all up and tell me what the total bill is - its got to be pushing £20m a year and that doesn't include all their additional expenses.
You add it up then we can discuss the amount of money swilling around in society in general and the tax loopholes used by the conservatives you are so fond ofOriginally Posted by dml1954
Let's begin with the Prime Ministers obscene wealth and the fact his wife tried to hide away her part of it from the tax man
Classic Socialist deflection tactics. These jobs and salaries listed are created and paid for by a Labour controlled Welsh Government who spend all their time moaning about the lack of funds they are given by central government. I would also bet my house that if you had income from a number of sources, you would do everything you could to conceal as much of it as possible and get out of paying tax on it.
Those at the top on such high wages and still an average wage of 32k.
No wonder some of those on the lower end rely on food banks.
Still at least they got a round of applause.
Just give them backdated inflation equivalent pay increases.
Side note yet another post for the alt forum.
I bet you I wouldn't
There was a report recently about public service pay and conditions real value when ll benefits are added together. For example basis salary when tax payers pension contributions are added can between 10 to 15k pa thats everyone in public sector ..
Fact:
“In 2010, when the Conservatives took over, national debt was £0.95trillion. So they promised to reduce it and said we can trust them with the economy. But now it’s £2.0trillion.”
Public sector net debt (PSND ex) at the end of January 2023 was £2,492.1 billion, or around 98.9% of gross domestic product (GDP), with the debt-to-GDP ratio at levels last seen in the early 1960s.21 Feb 2023
NHS :
The NHS in England employs 1.5 million people, with employee costs accounting for around two-thirds of NHS providers' expenditure 1. The NHS is the country's biggest employer and one of the largest employers globally 2.12 Oct 2022
Last sentence typical of the mess we are in and the country we have become.Blame low paid public workers , immigrants , Meghan Markle but hide your wealth avoid tax thats ok.
aneurin Bevan health board has a budget of over 1 billion pounds and employs over 12,000 people - how much do you think someone doing that job should be paid?
Thats all fine but since 2010 there has been the Covid crisis meaning that billions of pounds of extra money has had to be pumped into the economy which has obviously added greatly to the overall debt figures. Was it not actually going down during 2011 -2019 ?
Thats what happens though. Everyone would do it, given the chance. Anyone who says they haven't or wouldn't is just not being truthful. Its human nature, unfortunately, to want to keep hold of as much of your income as possible.
Not half a million pounds a year, almost twice as much as every other Health Board director and including £290000 into his pension plan, at least three or four times what every other director received.
The budget maybe £1 billion but how much of that goes on salaries ? When I worked in the public sector, the percentage of the budget that was spent on salaries was about 80% leaving 20% for senior managers to spend. How can anyone in the public sector earn more the the PM ?
It might be your nature, but tax avoidance is not 'human nature'. it is a deliberate and selfish choice by people who believe 'there is no such thing as society'.
Sorry but thats just not true on an individual level, although it would be at a Corporate level. How many of us over our working lives have done jobs and been paid in cash and not put it through ‘the books’ ? What you are saying is that everyone should declare everything they earn, no matter how small. I think you are being very naive if you think it doesn't widely happen, at all levels of society.
This is not even a Tory v Labour issue. It is about the amount of money the Government of the country we live in, spends on salaries of its employees. I have no doubt that there are people on that list that earn every penny of what they get but conversely there are also people on there who are vastly over paid, some in jobs doing unnecessary things. Just read the job titles and job descriptions. It doesn't take long to work out who they are.
I didn't say 'it doesn't widely happen'. It does. I questioned your claim that it is human nature - something innate in humans that means they are hard-wired to avoid paying their fair share towards collective services. It is a choice and almost certainly driven by a political (small p) view of the world.
ok I'll put it another way - if you were in charge of a billion pound organization, with 12k + employees, how much salary do you think you should get?
how much salary is Cardiff's CEO on?
You may be right that there are some 'non jobs' and inflated salaries in the mix. But that charge was behind the rubbishing of 'Elf & Safety' jobs in the right wing media, followed by massive cuts under the 2010 coalition government and after. Deregulation and cuts were a major factor in the horror of Grenfell tower in 2017.
The same suspicion and derision is often directed at jobs that deal with fair treatment of employees, access to services, and to various types of non-technical training. Are they non jobs or are culture and behaviours important to the way the public service works? I don't think you can always tell from job titles whether the jobs and the expenditure are justified or not.
The other part of the picture is the private sector funded by public money through outsourcing or simple goods and service contracts. I have more problem with public money going to shareholders and executives of for-profit organisations than the local council employing an Equalities Officer with a woolly JD.
Now do average wages since 2010 compared to profits made by companies.
I disagree. Don't people invest in ISAs and pensions etc as a means of avoiding financial instruments that are taxable?
You may disagree but giving an example of what some people do to potentially avoid paying tax isn't a counter point to what Jon said about it being human nature.
I think that is a different point from the one made by dml1954 in #3.
He was betting his house that if Sludge 'had income from a number of sources, you would do everything you could to conceal as much of it as possible and get out of paying tax on it.'
ISAs and pension contributions are not about concealment and tax avoidance. They are working with the tax rules, not trying to circumvent them.
Not sure why people get worked up about people in important positions getting well remunerated
Put another way what would you invest your money in? Something where tax is payable or something that isn't?
I agree that working within the tax rules is preferable; hence my comment about pensions and ISAs.
He thinks they should do it for nothing but applauds the entrepreneurs who acquired PPE contracts worth millions after their zero experience in that industry.
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