Panorama The Antidepressant Story

[North Cardiff Blue]

Panorama The Antidepressant Story

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001n39z

Apparently, depression is not caused by a chemical imbalance, that's just quoted to sell the drugs.

The Antidepressants were only said to be 55% successful in trials while the placebo was 40%.

And for many people coming off them can carry terrible withdrawal symptoms.

[life on mars]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

The trouble with them is the black market , the Health service has a part to play in regulatory standards and processes of issuing either legally or illegally sadly health workers and third parties like pharmacies are invloved.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

Panorama The Antidepressant Story

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001n39z

Apparently, depression is not caused by a chemical imbalance, that's just quoted to sell the drugs.

The Antidepressants were only said to be 55% successful in trials while the placebo was 40%.

And for many people coming off them can carry terrible withdrawal symptoms.

I think they are great

[Keyser Soze]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

My old bean had withdrawal symptoms on these. Gran did as well from old bean’s side. Don’t know what brand as I have never needed them.

Probably should have after a bad split with a bird when I was 25, but six-eight months of alcoholism and disco biscuits did wonders for the mood lifting.

What becomes of my liver lining in time I haven’t the foggiest. So far so good. Famous last words. Place your bets on when the wooden box is required.

Tick tock…

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

I think they are great

There weren't designed to be taken forever, lots of people can't manage without them, it's one long-term experiment now, and they're not sure what effect they will have on you long-term.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

There weren't designed to be taken forever, lots of people can't manage without them, it's one long-term experiment now, and they're not sure what effect they will have on you long-term.

They said that about paracetamol

It's the most effective first line painkiller we have

But take too many of them and its good night

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

Panorama The Antidepressant Story

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001n39z

Apparently, depression is not caused by a chemical imbalance, that's just quoted to sell the drugs.

The Antidepressants were only said to be 55% successful in trials while the placebo was 40%.

And for many people coming off them can carry terrible withdrawal symptoms.

Cancer drugs do not cure cancer for at least 50 percent of patients ......what do you think about that ?

A lot of cancer drugs have extremely serious side effects .......losing all your body hair is not a symptom of cancer generally ......its the side effects of the chemotherapy

Do you think we should have an enquiry or documentary into cancer drugs ?

The problem with anti depressant drugs is not that they not effective for most people .....they are

It's getting people to take them regularly in the first place and not to panic or get too worried if they get minor side effects whilst they get used to the drugs . People go on Google and on social media and listen to nonsense rather than their doctor who is a professional.

There are people out there who are clearly unwell and need tablets and counselling but they either don't have both , just have counselling or refuse to take medication

It's fecking insane

It's a serious illness , people prescribed these tablets have usually had problems for years yet unlike cancer where almost everyone would take medicine to cure things ......they are wreckless and refuse tablets

I don't have much sympathy for them

Those that do try tablets yet struggle with side effects need to keep working with their doctor

[Keyser Soze]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

The odds are they are probably good although my ma and gran struggled to come off them.

What bothers me more is the incentives baked into the system. As the old shrewd saying goes “Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the outcome”. That is to say, where there is an incentive or a motive to behave in a certain way which accrues an advantage of some kind, humans will find a loophole and generally behave in a way which accrues that advantage.

In this case we can sensibly surmise that on a coin flip of 50/50, if your statistics are correct, it seems that 50% of depression will be cured. But two other things stand out:

1. GPs are incentivised to issue the drugs, and are inclined to push them. Rarely do GPs discuss holistic solutions such as exercise, diet, improved social activity, volunteering, creative activities and other tools that are known to help with depression. My ma and gran never received this advice. Don’t forget, they are private practitioners (like dentists), even though they work for the NHS.

2. Pharmaceuticals will recieve a larger profit by pushing them onto the NHS / Private doctors

Therefore, with a push from the two above, and a clear motivation to sustain it due to incentives in the system, it is not intelligent to be a mug and assume they are all angels or that their interests are aligned to yours. But nor is it reasonable nor fair to assume they are all bent. But it is at least reasonable, and arguable, to question the ethics and the logic for issuing these drugs is correct in all cases, and for a sustained period. Because the incentives of .1 and .2 should be telling us, or more so screaming at us, to at least keep an open mind.

Assuming a tribal “For” or “Against”, taking sides in a tribal manner, is for the arena of religion, war, politics or sport. This is a scientific subject, and therefore until all the answers and angles are clear and conclusive, it is more sensible to adopt a position of retaining an open mind.

[OurManFlint II]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

Really enjoying Patrick Radden Keefe, just finished Say Nothing & Chatter and have Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty lined up to go when i finish my current book.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

Cancer drugs do not cure cancer for at least 50 percent of patients ......what do you think about that ?

A lot of cancer drugs have extremely serious side effects .......losing all your body hair is not a symptom of cancer generally ......its the side effects of the chemotherapy

Do you think we should have an enquiry or documentary into cancer drugs ?

The problem with anti depressant drugs is not that they not effective for most people .....they are

It's getting people to take them regularly in the first place and not to panic or get too worried if they get minor side effects whilst they get used to the drugs . People go on Google and on social media and listen to nonsense rather than their doctor who is a professional.

There are people out there who are clearly unwell and need tablets and counselling but they either don't have both , just have counselling or refuse to take medication

It's fecking insane

It's a serious illness , people prescribed these tablets have usually had problems for years yet unlike cancer where almost everyone would take medicine to cure things ......they are wreckless and refuse tablets

I don't have much sympathy for them

Those that do try tablets yet struggle with side effects need to keep working with their doctor

I know nothing about it, never taken any tablets except paracetamol or Ibuprofen once or twice a year.

I came across the programme by accident and ended up watching it. Their conclusion was it's essential for some, and may stop certain extreme cases from committing suicide, but that it appears to have been overprescribed sold on a lie, and that it's a long-term concern with the number of people that can't get off them because of heavy withdrawal symptoms.

I think if I was on them I'd watch it to learn a bit more.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

Cancer drugs do not cure cancer for at least 50 percent of patients ......what do you think about that ?

A lot of cancer drugs have extremely serious side effects .......losing all your body hair is not a symptom of cancer generally ......its the side effects of the chemotherapy

Do you think we should have an enquiry or documentary into cancer drugs ?

The problem with anti depressant drugs is not that they not effective for most people .....they are

It's getting people to take them regularly in the first place and not to panic or get too worried if they get minor side effects whilst they get used to the drugs . People go on Google and on social media and listen to nonsense rather than their doctor who is a professional.

There are people out there who are clearly unwell and need tablets and counselling but they either don't have both , just have counselling or refuse to take medication

It's fecking insane

It's a serious illness , people prescribed these tablets have usually had problems for years yet unlike cancer where almost everyone would take medicine to cure things ......they are wreckless and refuse tablets

I don't have much sympathy for them

Those that do try tablets yet struggle with side effects need to keep working with their doctor

If I thought I needed either and was told by a doctor, I would take whatever tablets they prescribed, I would probably research a bit first though.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

The odds are they are probably good although my ma and gran struggled to come off them.

What bothers me more is the incentives baked into the system. As the old shrewd saying goes “Show me the incentive and I’ll show you the outcome”. That is to say, where there is an incentive or a motive to behave in a certain way which accrues an advantage of some kind, humans will find a loophole and generally behave in a way which accrues that advantage.

In this case we can sensibly surmise that on a coin flip of 50/50, if your statistics are correct, it seems that 50% of depression will be cured. But two other things stand out:

1. GPs are incentivised to issue the drugs, and are inclined to push them. Rarely do GPs discuss holistic solutions such as exercise, diet, improved social activity, volunteering, creative activities and other tools that are known to help with depression. My ma and gran never received this advice. Don’t forget, they are private practitioners (like dentists), even though they work for the NHS.

2. Pharmaceuticals will recieve a larger profit by pushing them onto the NHS / Private doctors

Therefore, with a push from the two above, and a clear motivation to sustain it due to incentives in the system, it is not intelligent to be a mug and assume they are all angels or that their interests are aligned to yours. But nor is it reasonable nor fair to assume they are all bent. But it is at least reasonable, and arguable, to question the ethics and the logic for issuing these drugs is correct in all cases, and for a sustained period. Because the incentives of .1 and .2 should be telling us, or more so screaming at us, to at least keep an open mind.

Assuming a tribal “For” or “Against”, taking sides in a tribal manner, is for the arena of religion, war, politics or sport. This is a scientific subject, and therefore until all the answers and angles are clear and conclusive, it is more sensible to adopt a position of retaining an open mind.

The program blames big pharma really, saying that people suffer it because of a chemical imbalance was the sales ploy, they said that made people believe taking these would correct that imbalance, but the chemical imbalance was just a line that's never been proved.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

I know nothing about it, never taken any tablets except paracetamol or Ibuprofen once or twice a year.

I came across the programme by accident and ended up watching it. Their conclusion was it's essential for some, and may stop certain extreme cases from committing suicide, but that it appears to have been overprescribed sold on a lie, and that it's a long-term concern with the number of people that can't get off them because of heavy withdrawal symptoms.

I think if I was on them I'd watch it to learn a bit more.

Forgot had antibiotics too, they seem to speed up infections with no issues (for me) so would defo take again.

[chrisp_1927]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

Really enjoying Patrick Radden Keefe, just finished Say Nothing & Chatter and have Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty lined up to go when i finish my current book.

Sounds interesting. The sacklers are truly awful. The amount of wasted lives , death and addiction caused by them is almost limitless. I'm not religious, but if there is an afterlife, I hope they suffer absolutely terribly. Truly horrendous people

[Trigger]

Re: Panorama The Antidepressant Story

In the short term they are a viable option.

Unfortunately it's too easy to just prescribe these and not get to the root cause of why someone is unwell.