Sue Gray

[JamesWales]

Re: Sue Gray

Don't insult my intelligence

You are a raving tory and there is as much chance of you voting Labour as me voting Conservative

Your approach to politics is the same as the people down the City who shout at anyone who didn't go to Hartlepool away in 1991 or whatever and thus have no right to enjoy promotion to the premier league.

You are also wrong. I did vote Labour in the last council elections (and one Conservative) and its none of your business either way.

Your approach to politics is like we live in a one party state and people have to demonstrate how loyal they are to that party. You do that if you want, but you won't attract more voters to the Labour Party that way

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Sue Gray

I'm not pissed off about it, but I do think:

1 / The Sue Gray report probably suffered from some kind of bias. The speed with which she started working for the Labour party is pretty dodgy.

2 / The two main parties are both equally susceptible to bad behaviour and there is a whiff of hypocrisy around

3 / I don't mind Labour winning the next election at all. I assume they will and they may get my vote. The key thing for me was Starmer to stop banging on about Brexit and he seems to be courting the working class vote by stopping going on about it and also stepping away from a lot of the more 'woke' stuff too. That said, I don't want a landslide. I don't think that's really good in any respect. Healthy majority is best.

The key is not being woke (?) and not being mean about brexit?

I must say, that is an extraordinarily strange set of priorities given what is going on in the UK/World right now.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Sue Gray

Not directly, but it was a huge deal and was published a month or so before he resigned as PM. No one is naive enough to think it wasn't a contributory factor.

And for her to then become a part of the opposition, when her report was criticised (unfairly in my opinion) as being a bit of stitch up...well, it's not a great look is it?

So you don't think it was a stitch up but are happy to call it corruption now. I think you might need to go back to the drawing board on this one James.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Sue Gray

Your approach to politics is the same as the people down the City who shout at anyone who didn't go to Hartlepool away in 1991 or whatever and thus have no right to enjoy promotion to the premier league.

You are also wrong. I did vote Labour in the last council elections (and one Conservative) and its none of your business either way.

Your approach to politics is like we live in a one party state and people have to demonstrate how loyal they are to that party. You do that if you want, but you won't attract more voters to the Labour Party that way

I know and you know you are a tory and always will be

You are not a floating voter

It's pointless indulging in political debate with you

I am more than happy to vote liberal , green , Plaid in addition to labour to try and keep your lot out

I couldn't give a toss about labour party conferences , Tony benns fecking diary or women only shortlists

I just want you and your lot kept out of power

It's no more complicated than that

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Sue Gray

Your approach to politics is the same as the people down the City who shout at anyone who didn't go to Hartlepool away in 1991 or whatever and thus have no right to enjoy promotion to the premier league.

You are also wrong. I did vote Labour in the last council elections (and one Conservative) and its none of your business either way.

Your approach to politics is like we live in a one party state and people have to demonstrate how loyal they are to that party. You do that if you want, but you won't attract more voters to the Labour Party that way

Labour may get my vote ?

Please feck off with this bullshit

[JamesWales]

Re: Sue Gray

So you don't think it was a stitch up but are happy to call it corruption now. I think you might need to go back to the drawing board on this one James.

Well I did think it was unfair as she was an independent member of the civil service. Then she pretty quickly gets a job with the Labour party, perhaps not doing so by following due process, and it does raise some questions. I'm not sure it was thr wisest appointment by Starmer and I'm certain she wouldn't have got the job had her report come to a different conclusion

[JamesWales]

Re: Sue Gray

Labour may get my vote ?

Please feck off with this bullshit

Do you ever read your posts and think "fk me, who is this nutter? Wouldn't want to get stuck next to him at a bar"?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Sue Gray

I'm not pissed off about it, but I do think:

1 / The Sue Gray report probably suffered from some kind of bias.

Here are its conclusions. The rest is factual statement of meetings and photographs. Which bits are the biased bits in your view?

Whatever the initial intent, what took place at many of these gatherings and the way in which they developed was not in line with Covid guidance at the time. Even allowing for the extraordinary pressures officials and advisers were under, the factual findings of this report illustrate some attitudes and behaviours inconsistent with that guidance. It is also clear, from the outcome of the police investigation, that a large number of individuals (83) who attended these events breached Covid regulations and therefore Covid guidance.

I have already commented in my update on what I found to be failures of leadership and judgment in No 10 and the Cabinet Office. The events that I investigated were attended by leaders in government. Many of these events should not have been allowed to happen. It is also the case that some of the more junior civil servants believed that their involvement in some of these events was permitted given the attendance of senior leaders. The senior leadership at the centre, both political and official, must bear responsibility for this culture.

In my update I made a number of general limited findings, I am pleased progress is being made in addressing the issues I raised. I commented on the fragmentary and complicated leadership structures in No 10. Since my update there have been changes to the organisation and management of Downing Street and the Cabinet Office with the aim of creating clearer lines of leadership and accountability and now these need the chance and time to bed in.

I found that some staff had witnessed or been subjected to behaviours at work which they had felt concerned about but at times felt unable to raise properly. I was made aware of multiple examples of a lack of respect and poor treatment of security and cleaning staff. This was unacceptable. I am reassured to see that steps have since been taken to introduce more easily accessible means by which to raise concerns electronically, in person or online, including directly with the Permanent Secretary in No 10. I hope that this will truly embed a culture that welcomes and creates opportunities for challenge and speaking up at all levels.

I also made a recommendation that steps should be taken to ensure that every Government Department has a clear and robust policy in place covering the consumption of alcohol in the workplace. Since then guidance has been issued to all Government Departments.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/findings-of-the-second-permanent-secretarys-investigation-into-alleged-gatherings-on-government-premises-during-covid-restrictions

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Sue Gray

Do you ever read your posts and think "fk me, who is this nutter? Wouldn't want to get stuck next to him at a bar"?

The main nutter on here is you

You have spent several years bigging up the Tories at every opportunity

Last year you pretended you might possibly vote Labour

That's absolute bollocks

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Sue Gray

The key is not being woke (?) and not being mean about brexit?

I must say, that is an extraordinarily strange set of priorities given what is going on in the UK/World right now.

Isn’t it just. Seems James has lost any pretence of his self proclaimed even handedness in recent weeks.

[JamesWales]

Re: Sue Gray

Isn’t it just. Seems James has lost any pretence of his self proclaimed even handedness in recent weeks.

Sorry what? Did you read what I wrote? Eric cut that from a post in which I literally said I may vote Labour in the next general election!

And he purposefully misinterpreted what I wrote too. It's not about 'being mean about brexit' it's about not trying to overturn democratic vote. And that policy he flirted with has gone - that's good! And he seems to be embracing the opportunities - good!

And yes, the more Labour talk about real issues, rather than whether women have penises and other divisive gender and race issues, the better in my opinion.

Does that clear it up for you?

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Sue Gray

Sorry what? Did you read what I wrote? Eric cut that from a post in which I literally said I may vote Labour in the next general election!

And he purposefully misinterpreted what I wrote too. It's not about 'being mean about brexit' it's about not trying to overturn democratic vote. And that policy he flirted with has gone - that's good! And he seems to be embracing the opportunities - good!

And yes, the more Labour talk about real issues, rather than whether women have penises and other divisive gender and race issues, the better in my opinion.

Does that clear it up for you?

I just read what you put on here, you’re not even handed and never have been. I believe most of us who post on politics on here would accept that we’re not even handed, but, you, despite always coming down on one side of the line, don’t seem to be able to acknowledge it in yourself.

[JamesWales]

Re: Sue Gray

I just read what you put on here, you’re not even handed and never have been. I believe most of us who post on politics on here would accept that we’re not even handed, but, you, despite always coming down on one side of the line, don’t seem to be able to acknowledge it in yourself.

How do you be even handed when people like Sludge say all Tories should go to hell etc? You tell me. You see these of statements on here all the time, yet never call them out.

You will see that when a thread is started neutrally, I am. When a thread is started by someone making an outlandish statement, I won't be, because coming to a sensible conclusion (usually the truth) requires rowing back from that outlandish position.

Imagine you think Erol Built is a decent manager who may do okay. But some people only start threads where they say he's shite, a disgrace, never won anything, unproven etc. Your defence of him would be consistent, but only to try and make an even handed point.

Thats what happens here.You just seem okay with it as most outlandish statements come from certain people who support the party you support

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Sue Gray

How do you be even handed when people like Sludge say all Tories should go to hell etc? You tell me. You see these of statements on here all the time, yet never call them out.

You will see that when a thread is started neutrally, I am. When a thread is started by someone making an outlandish statement, I won't be, because coming to a sensible conclusion (usually the truth) requires rowing back from that outlandish position.

Imagine you think Erol Built is a decent manager who may do okay. But some people only start threads where they say he's shite, a disgrace, never won anything, unproven etc. Your defence of him would be consistent, but only to try and make an even handed point.

Thats what happens here.You just seem okay with it as most outlandish statements come from certain people who support the party you support

I make no claims about being even handed, but I start more threads that are critical of Labour (there’s one floating about here now) than you do about the Tory party - I’m probably right in saying I’d only need the one to win that particular competition.