The Liberal Democrats

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

It's just this whole "13 years" thing, as if things were good before. They werent, they were worse than anything since.

Global causes yes, but that's the same now.

It's just rhetoric really, but I guess that's politics for you.

I would rather get a slap from a mate than some lump in the pub

[JamesWales]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

Truss tanking the economy wasn't global neither was Brexit.

The 13 years thing, the only person to mention it in this thread is you.

That said the UK economy performed strongly from 1997 up to the recession in 2008.

No, the impact of the Truss budget was selfmade, but it hasn't impacted much long term at all. Same with Brexit, despite all the noise.

And you are right.. it did. But from 2008 it didn't. That has set the tone for lower growth across the west since. We've never recovered.

I hope we do if we got a new government but I doubt it.

[jon1959]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

I don't even know what the Lib Dems stand for. At least with the Tories/Labour it's pretty clear cut: Tories stand for inequality and greed; Labour stands for fairness and justice. But what exactly floats your average Lib Dem's boat? I'm buggered if I know.

I don't think there is an average Lib Dem. They have been chameleons since the days of David Steele. In Labour areas (like mine) they are Yellow Tories. In Tory areas they are Yellow Social Democrats. In some parts of the south west they sound and act like Greens.

[JamesWales]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

I don't think there is an average Lib Dem. They have been chameleons since the days of David Steele. In Labour areas (like mine) they are Yellow Tories. In Tory areas they are Yellow Social Democrats. In some parts of the south west they sound and act like Greens.

Agree on this. Like many third parties I guess they fill the gaps depending on where they exist.

Lib Dems can be very different across the country. Only thing that is consistent is their dodgy bar charts.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

It's just this whole "13 years" thing, as if things were good before. They werent, they were worse than anything since.

Global causes yes, but that's the same now.

It's just rhetoric really, but I guess that's politics for you.

So, why is it then that probably the most effective line that Labour can come out with at the moment is the simple question "are you better off now than you were thirteen years ago?"

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-slowdown-since-financial-crisis-left-families-%C2%A31400-poorer-230115156.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACfxtGLR-wG2I5DwDmLReDI44FtPIXjH5qlwyEtEs0a2l253z7u49I6eYb_WztZuJKusZclczjMiiHnJZqmcfOTdKgmCuNs498v27KsLAyDbALca04l3A21KXpV5g7IFpwgSQDw8mcUnvQ4Rrzlndtu_c5CGrJrG60vuEv-jKP_e

[Swiss Peter]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

No, the impact of the Truss budget was selfmade, but it hasn't impacted much long term at all. Same with Brexit, despite all the noise.

And you are right.. it did. But from 2008 it didn't. That has set the tone for lower growth across the west since. We've never recovered.

I hope we do if we got a new government but I doubt it.

You don't know this. Please don't try and pass it off as fact. I think you'll be proved very wrong.

[Jordi Culé]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

You don't know this. Please don't try and pass it off as fact. I think you'll be proved very wrong.

Exactly this.

What we do know is that since Brexit (and the end of Covid) the UK has experienced higher rates of inflation, we have a shortage of workers, even Twaaty Tim from Spoons acknowledges this and our economy growth rate lags behind the rest of the G7 countries.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit though?

Luckily for the UK, Liz Truss came to save the day

[Jordi Culé]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

I don't think there is an average Lib Dem. They have been chameleons since the days of David Steele. In Labour areas (like mine) they are Yellow Tories. In Tory areas they are Yellow Social Democrats. In some parts of the south west they sound and act like Greens.

Truss was once a Liberal.

I rest my case m’lud.

[JamesWales]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

So, why is it then that probably the most effective line that Labour can come out with at the moment is the simple question "are you better off now than you were thirteen years ago?"

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk...rG60vuEv-jKP_e

Because it's political rhetoric. It's obvious why they do it. I would do it. It's a good attack line. But an even better question is are you better off that you were 15 years ago! That's my point. People forget what 2008-2010 was like.

This idea that things changed in 2010 with a new govt. It's wrong. Things changed in 2008.

[JamesWales]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

Exactly this.

What we do know is that since Brexit (and the end of Covid) the UK has experienced higher rates of inflation, we have a shortage of workers, even Twaaty Tim from Spoons acknowledges this and our economy growth rate lags behind the rest of the G7 countries.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit though?

Luckily for the UK, Liz Truss came to save the day

There has been essentially zero impact on GDP growth of it Vs other comparable countries.

Our inflation did not peak higher.

Our unemployment is noticeably lower

Our wage growth is higher

Our experts to the EU are now far higher too.

It's made some things harder for some businesses thats true. You can put some things in the negative column, that's not in. Dispute. But overall there is no notable impact.

[Dorcus]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

There has been essentially zero impact on GDP growth of it Vs other comparable countries.

Our inflation did not peak higher.

Our unemployment is noticeably lower

Our wage growth is higher

Our experts to the EU are now far higher too.

It's made some things harder for some businesses thats true. You can put some things in the negative column, that's not in. Dispute. But overall there is no notable impact.

Jimmy dying on a hill all for the love of Brexit. He sounds like the Black Knight outta Monty Python.

[Jordi Culé]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

There has been essentially zero impact on GDP growth of it Vs other comparable countries.

Our inflation did not peak higher.

Our unemployment is noticeably lower

Our wage growth is higher

Our experts to the EU are now far higher too.

It's made some things harder for some businesses thats true. You can put some things in the negative column, that's not in. Dispute. But overall there is no notable impact.

You're obfuscating Jimbo. Good to see your Brexit tinted nuance is working though.

Let's go through what I said again.

GDP lower than G7 countries.

UK experienced higher rates of inflation.

Shortage of workers.

I'll give you wage growth has been higher in the UK but that's due to a shortage of workers, its also led to higher inflation. Who'd have thought it uh?

[JamesWales]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

Jimmy dying on a hill all for the love of Brexit. He sounds like the Black Knight outta Monty Python.

It only took a moment Ducky! No dying on hills needed.

[JamesWales]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

You're obfuscating Jimbo. Good to see your Brexit tinted nuance is working though.

Let's go through what I said again.

GDP lower than G7 countries.

UK experienced higher rates of inflation.

Shortage of workers.

I'll give you wage growth has been higher in the UK but that's due to a shortage of workers, its also led to higher inflation. Who'd have thought it uh?

First bit isn't true.

Second bit isn't true

Third bit..well yeah..you limit supply of workers and UK workers benefit. What do you want? Lower wages?

Theres a tonne of data out there. Unemployment, stock market, wages, investment, GDP, inflation. It's naturally mixed but none of it points to much of an impact at all

And as has been pointed out before. We left the EU a few weeks before Covid hit our shores. So it's only now that clear patterns emerge and out GDP growth is above our peers.

Essentially absolutely nothing of what was predicted by some has happened. Just accept it and move on. It's been 7 years!

[Jordi Culé]

Re: The Liberal Democrats

First bit isn't true.

Second bit isn't true

Third bit..well yeah..you limit supply of workers and UK workers benefit. What do you want? Lower wages?

Theres a tonne of data out there. Unemployment, stock market, wages, investment, GDP, inflation. It's naturally mixed but none of it points to much of an impact at all

And as has been pointed out before. We left the EU a few weeks before Covid hit our shores. So it's only now that clear patterns emerge and out GDP growth is above our peers.

Essentially absolutely nothing of what was predicted by some has happened. Just accept it and move on. It's been 7 years!

First bit

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/12/uk-economy-shrank-unexpectedly-in-march

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64450882

Second bit

https://news.sky.com/story/oecd-says...0from%205.4%25.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/uk/uk-inflation-rate-to-be-highest-among-g7-nations-predicts-paris-based-oecd/articleshow/103789660.cms

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/why-does-uk-have-such-painful-inflation-problem-2023-05-26/

Granted inflation has stabilised the last month.

I've moved on from Brexit ages ago. I'm pointing our what the UK has experienced since and still of the opinion it was economic hari kiri.