Epstein.

[JamesWales]

Re: Epstein.

The biggest surprise (and disappointment) to me in the Epstein Files to date is Noam Chomsky.

I am not surprised at all by any of the other 'names' revealed and not redacted - but I thought better of Chomsky.

He wasn't exactly an icon - but I always thought he was principled, consistent and brave. Seems he was none of those things when it came to his association with (and advice to) Epstein (and Bannon).

I hadn't read anything about Chomsky, but just looked on twitter now.

I read a lot of his stuff in the past, and whilst I think people's private and public behaviour can be very different I must agree with you in being surprised and disappointed. I am happy to give most people the benefit of the doubt that they didnt know the full extent of things, but reading his slobbering emails is a surprise as you say.

[Dorcus]

Re: Epstein.

I hadn't read anything about Chomsky, but just looked on twitter now.

I read a lot of his stuff in the past, and whilst I think people's private and public behaviour can be very different I must agree with you in being surprised and disappointed. I am happy to give most people the benefit of the doubt that they didnt know the full extent of things, but reading his slobbering emails is a surprise as you say.

A great surprise and disappointment to me too! Are there any good guys left? (Apart from SpongeBob Square Pants of course)

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Epstein.

The biggest surprise (and disappointment) to me in the Epstein Files to date is Noam Chomsky.

I am not surprised at all by any of the other 'names' revealed and not redacted - but I thought better of Chomsky.

He wasn't exactly an icon - but I always thought he was principled, consistent and brave. Seems he was none of those things when it came to his association with (and advice to) Epstein (and Bannon).

His outlook changed somewhere along the line compared to his Manufacturing Consent days.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Epstein.

It seems like Epstein was helping Gates with some pandemic stuff?

This is crazy sh*t, anybody had a look yet?

[Heathblue]

Re: Epstein.

A great surprise and disappointment to me too! Are there any good guys left? (Apart from SpongeBob Square Pants of course)

I'm not surprised at any of the names TBF most of them have been revealed by the autists and anons but to mention them, the matrix takes over, it has to clear however that a mention isn't automatically associated to a wrong doing, but from here on in, suspicion will always follow the name. You might have to wait another 5 years or so but when P Gate is finally exposed into the public domain as not a conspiracy by the RW, the Epstein files will look like a tea party by comparison.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Epstein.

The biggest surprise (and disappointment) to me in the Epstein Files to date is Noam Chomsky.

I am not surprised at all by any of the other 'names' revealed and not redacted - but I thought better of Chomsky.

He wasn't exactly an icon - but I always thought he was principled, consistent and brave. Seems he was none of those things when it came to his association with (and advice to) Epstein (and Bannon).

In Brecht's play 'Galileo Galilei' it is put to the protagonist "Unglücklich das Land, das keine Helden hat!" (Unfortunate is the land that has no heroes) whereupon the eponymous scientist responds "Nein, Unglücklich das Land, das Helden nötig hat (No, unfortunate is the land that needs heroes).

The play was obviously written regarding a certain populism at the time but I have always thought that we should all have reservations about would-be idols and semi-idols, whether the be kings, emperors, historical folk heroes, esteemed politicians, religious leaders, those honoured by various bodies (including the gongs handed out by the tainted Royal Family), or, dare I say, celebrities. And we shouldn't just swallow history that is passed down to us by the Victor and those in influential positions, of course.

Interestingly, I have just got back to my hotel room after visiting the Mujahedeen Museum in Algiers, which documents the oppression by the French colonialists, including the methods of torture. Just one side of the story but pretty damning nevertheless. Having been the only foreign tourist there, the friendly staff were asking me questions as to why I was interested and why I chose to visit Algeria (and where I haven't spotted another tourist in the three days I have been here).

History and different ways of learning about it is fascinating.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Epstein.

Ever heard of Tina Brown before? I hadn’t, but now she should be hailed as a modern day heroine.

https://x.com/moorehn/status/2018441115423121793?s=61

[jon1959]

Re: Epstein.

In Brecht's play 'Galileo Galilei' it is put to the protagonist "Unglücklich das Land, das keine Helden hat!" (Unfortunate is the land that has no heroes) whereupon the eponymous scientist responds "Nein, Unglücklich das Land, das Helden nötig hat (No, unfortunate is the land that needs heroes).

The play was obviously written regarding a certain populism at the time but I have always thought that we should all have reservations about would-be idols and semi-idols, whether the be kings, emperors, historical folk heroes, esteemed politicians, religious leaders, those honoured by various bodies (including the gongs handed out by the tainted Royal Family), or, dare I say, celebrities. And we shouldn't just swallow history that is passed down to us by the Victor and those in influential positions, of course.

Interestingly, I have just got back to my hotel room after visiting the Mujahedeen Museum in Algiers, which documents the oppression by the French colonialists, including the methods of torture. Just one side of the story but pretty damning nevertheless. Having been the only foreign tourist there, the friendly staff were asking me questions as to why I was interested and why I chose to visit Algeria (and where I haven't spotted another tourist in the three days I have been here).

History and different ways of learning about it is fascinating.

That is one Brecht play I don't know - but I like the quotes.

I agree with you about 'heroes' and 'idols' - but with Chomsky I thought there was a rigour and consistency to his writing (and his on screen discussions) that was reliable. Then he turns up advising Epstein on how to deflect bad press, and using Steve Bannon as an intermediary. There is no suggestion that Chomsky had any involvement in Epstein's trafficking and sex crimes (or those of his friends and clients) but he seems to have gone out of his way to establish a relationship with him.

Given Chomsky's lifelong political position (which hasn't changed much in his writing) why would he want to cosy up with a Mossad asset and (if recent Polish claims are true) also an agent for Putin? It makes no sense to me - but is a major stain on his reputation.

I finally got around to watching Battle For Algiers last year. The museum sounds fascinating.

Battle of Algiers.jpg

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Epstein.

I also passed a cinema showing actual film footage of the war for independence.

[JamesWales]

Re: Epstein.

In Brecht's play 'Galileo Galilei' it is put to the protagonist "Unglücklich das Land, das keine Helden hat!" (Unfortunate is the land that has no heroes) whereupon the eponymous scientist responds "Nein, Unglücklich das Land, das Helden nötig hat (No, unfortunate is the land that needs heroes).

The play was obviously written regarding a certain populism at the time but I have always thought that we should all have reservations about would-be idols and semi-idols, whether the be kings, emperors, historical folk heroes, esteemed politicians, religious leaders, those honoured by various bodies (including the gongs handed out by the tainted Royal Family), or, dare I say, celebrities. And we shouldn't just swallow history that is passed down to us by the Victor and those in influential positions, of course.

Interestingly, I have just got back to my hotel room after visiting the Mujahedeen Museum in Algiers, which documents the oppression by the French colonialists, including the methods of torture. Just one side of the story but pretty damning nevertheless. Having been the only foreign tourist there, the friendly staff were asking me questions as to why I was interested and why I chose to visit Algeria (and where I haven't spotted another tourist in the three days I have been here).

History and different ways of learning about it is fascinating.

Saddened that you were the only foreign tourist at the museum. Algiers is hardly the most obscure or isolated of cities.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Epstein.

Saddened that you were the only foreign tourist at the museum. Algiers is hardly the most obscure or isolated of cities.

As I stated, I haven't recognised another tourist here in Algeria since I arrived on Monday morning - and despite walking around the capital city for hours on end, to other towns and in various locations in the countryside up to two hours away from Algiers.
It's necessary to obtain a visa, which is a bit of a fag and which required evidence of one's income and employment along with £85 in cash or via Postal Order (which I presented in person to the Consulate in London the morning after the Stevenage game and having kipped in my old van just outside the M25 after the game) but I have never spent three days anywhere else in the world without seeing even one other tourist.

[JamesWales]

Re: Epstein.

As I stated, I haven't recognised another tourist here in Algeria since I arrived on Monday morning - and despite walking around the capital city for hours on end, to other towns and in various locations in the countryside up to two hours away from Algiers.
It's necessary to obtain a visa, which is a bit of a fag and which required evidence of one's income and employment along with £85 in cash or via Postal Order (which I presented in person to the Consulate in London the morning after the Stevenage game and having kipped in my old van just outside the M25 after the game) but I have never spent three days anywhere else in the world without seeing even one other tourist.

Yeah it must be quite a curious experience. I have long grown tired of tourists and actively prefer to visit "secondary cities" to capitals nowadays as I am fed up of those cities catering far too much for tourists and just turning into playgrounds for rich people from Los San Francisco to Shanghai to Sydney. Less well known places are often far more interesting.

That said, there is a certain comfort in seeing at least some fellow travellers I guess! Enjoy the trip anyway, it sounds like you have some great ones!

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Epstein.

Yeah it must be quite a curious experience. I have long grown tired of tourists and actively prefer to visit "secondary cities" to capitals nowadays as I am fed up of those cities catering far too much for tourists and just turning into playgrounds for rich people from Los San Francisco to Shanghai to Sydney. Less well known places are often far more interesting.

That said, there is a certain comfort in seeing at least some fellow travellers I guess! Enjoy the trip anyway, it sounds like you have some great ones!

I can't say I get any 'comfort' from seeing other travellers but cheers anyway.

[Dorcus]

Re: Epstein.

In Brecht's play 'Galileo Galilei' it is put to the protagonist "Unglücklich das Land, das keine Helden hat!" (Unfortunate is the land that has no heroes) whereupon the eponymous scientist responds "Nein, Unglücklich das Land, das Helden nötig hat (No, unfortunate is the land that needs heroes).

The play was obviously written regarding a certain populism at the time but I have always thought that we should all have reservations about would-be idols and semi-idols, whether the be kings, emperors, historical folk heroes, esteemed politicians, religious leaders, those honoured by various bodies (including the gongs handed out by the tainted Royal Family), or, dare I say, celebrities. And we shouldn't just swallow history that is passed down to us by the Victor and those in influential positions, of course.

Interestingly, I have just got back to my hotel room after visiting the Mujahedeen Museum in Algiers, which documents the oppression by the French colonialists, including the methods of torture. Just one side of the story but pretty damning nevertheless. Having been the only foreign tourist there, the friendly staff were asking me questions as to why I was interested and why I chose to visit Algeria (and where I haven't spotted another tourist in the three days I have been here).

History and different ways of learning about it is fascinating.

Superb post TBG and I agree wholeheartedly. You must be well on your way to achieving your bucket list target of visiting every country in the World by now Shirley? After that, what next....the Moon?

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Epstein.

Farking 'ell, this quite serious thread has turned into an episode of Judith Chalmer's Wish You Were Here!