You gov polling

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: You gov polling

There's much we disagree on and much we agree on, one of which is the severe crisis in housing which disproportionately impacts younger people, although is a major issue for all.

My sister's ex rents a three bed house which he shares with my niece and nephew when they stay with him. The landlord is raising his rent from £750 to £1350. It's an absolute scandal and appalling for him, and by definition anyone connected.

But what policies have the older generation voted for to make people poorer? Perhaps they are more prone to nimbyism, but we also see lots of fresh faced young environmentalists opposing new housing.

The biggest issue is immigration and that's something younger generations seem to support yo the hilt, seemingly unaware of the impact it has on housing. The link to housing and wages was far more stable before immigration soared in the early 2000s. There are though, many many factors. I don't see any of them particularly driven by the older generation though. That argument strikes me as a convenient but unhelpful and divisive sideshow.

That rent increase is shocking. Feel for people in this situation I really do.

[Rjk]

Re: You gov polling

I don't think anyone would commission a report that would be honest about this topic. It's certainly not all of it, that's true, but it's a far bigger part than anyone in power will admit to.

saying that you believe your own prejudices over any data that you may be presented with says more about you than it does about the issue

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: You gov polling

The housing crisis ....

Makes me ****ing 😆 when tory voters and the tory government try to bat that one away

Thatcher sold off the council houses

Thatcher abolished the protected rent acts which if in place today would stop landlords pushing up rents and say its what the market will pay

Ff sake you ignorant idiots ....its the tories who pushed the scrapping of fair rents

No long term tenancies these days ......6 months assured shorthold then feck you out you go if we want to get someone else in , up the rent or flog the place for a holiday

Tories looking to blame immigration for the housing crisis load of crap

Loss of council houses , loss of housing to rent more and more expensive to rent due to tory government and failure to build replacements for council houses sold .....another lie from the tories

And a failure to build more houses for the increasing population which is at the core of UK housing policy since 1979

Who has been in power for all but 13 of those years ?

The conservatives

No amount of yeah but no nonsense will save your arses

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: You gov polling

There's much we disagree on and much we agree on, one of which is the severe crisis in housing which disproportionately impacts younger people, although is a major issue for all.

My sister's ex rents a three bed house which he shares with my niece and nephew when they stay with him. The landlord is raising his rent from £750 to £1350. It's an absolute scandal and appalling for him, and by definition anyone connected.

But what policies have the older generation voted for to make people poorer? Perhaps they are more prone to nimbyism, but we also see lots of fresh faced young environmentalists opposing new housing.

The biggest issue is immigration and that's something younger generations seem to support yo the hilt, seemingly unaware of the impact it has on housing. The link to housing and wages was far more stable before immigration soared in the early 2000s. There are though, many many factors. I don't see any of them particularly driven by the older generation though. That argument strikes me as a convenient but unhelpful and divisive sideshow.

Does he vote tory like you ?

Tell him to wise up because if he does he's the harvester of his own sorrow

It's tory voters like you who have caused the housing mess and those before you

No sympathy at all for those that continue to back the conservatives

This rent increase story has been going on for years since the abolition of the fair rent and protected rent system

Ripped up by Thatcher and successive tory governments .....and avoided by Blair too

[Doucas]

Re: You gov polling

There's much we disagree on and much we agree on, one of which is the severe crisis in housing which disproportionately impacts younger people, although is a major issue for all.

My sister's ex rents a three bed house which he shares with my niece and nephew when they stay with him. The landlord is raising his rent from £750 to £1350. It's an absolute scandal and appalling for him, and by definition anyone connected.

But what policies have the older generation voted for to make people poorer? Perhaps they are more prone to nimbyism, but we also see lots of fresh faced young environmentalists opposing new housing.

The biggest issue is immigration and that's something younger generations seem to support yo the hilt, seemingly unaware of the impact it has on housing. The link to housing and wages was far more stable before immigration soared in the early 2000s. There are though, many many factors. I don't see any of them particularly driven by the older generation though. That argument strikes me as a convenient but unhelpful and divisive sideshow.

While I don't disagree 700,000 people a year coming to the UK is unsustainable it's also true that we are building far less social housing per year than we used to. I think we have 2 million less council houses than we did 20 years ago.

I don't know if the table shown in this article is true or not, if it is its shocking how few are being built now.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/key-events-in-history-of-uk-council-housing/37332881.html

While you may dislike him, Corbyn would have at least tried to build more social housing, the UK voted against him, twice and it was older people who were more likely to vote against him.

[JamesWales]

Re: You gov polling

The housing crisis ....

Makes me ****ing 😆 when tory voters and the tory government try to bat that one away

Thatcher sold off the council houses

Thatcher abolished the protected rent acts which if in place today would stop landlords pushing up rents and say its what the market will pay

Ff sake you ignorant idiots ....its the tories who pushed the scrapping of fair rents

No long term tenancies these days ......6 months assured shorthold then feck you out you go if we want to get someone else in , up the rent or flog the place for a holiday

Tories looking to blame immigration for the housing crisis load of crap

Loss of council houses , loss of housing to rent more and more expensive to rent due to tory government and failure to build replacements for council houses sold .....another lie from the tories

And a failure to build more houses for the increasing population which is at the core of UK housing policy since 1979

Who has been in power for all but 13 of those years ?

The conservatives

No amount of yeah but no nonsense will save your arses

Why are all of your arguments at least 40 years out of date?

What's your solution to City upfront today? Carl Dale?

[JamesWales]

Re: You gov polling

While I don't disagree 700,000 people a year coming to the UK is unsustainable it's also true that we are building far less social housing per year than we used to. I think we have 2 million less council houses than we did 20 years ago.

I don't know if the table shown in this article is true or not, if it is its shocking how few are being built now.

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/key-events-in-history-of-uk-council-housing/37332881.html

While you may dislike him, Corbyn would have at least tried to build more social housing, the UK voted against him, twice and it was older people who were more likely to vote against him.

Yeah my issue with Corbyn isn't related to housing. Although I am not sure he would have been able to keep to his promise but still

[JamesWales]

Re: You gov polling

saying that you believe your own prejudices over any data that you may be presented with says more about you than it does about the issue

Or a lack of faith in institutions to report the truth. As I said, no government, no council would commission any report that concluded immigration had a negative impact on housing. It's just not how there things work, unfortunately. But the evidence is there on the ground for all to see.

And that's not to say immigration is bad. It's about levels and it's about recognising pros and cons and coming to a balanced opinion. But ignoring the impact is 1984 kinda thinking.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: You gov polling

Why are all of your arguments at least 40 years out of date?

What's your solution to City upfront today? Carl Dale?

Why don't you take a break again ?

40 years of so would be great

You would still come back with your yeah but no nonsense as you are a tory bore but at least it would give us a rest from your nauseating crap

You are a tory you will be a tory at the next election even after the last 13 years and until you snuff it

So do us a favour and have another holiday , you last about a week before you start sucking up to them again after you have waltzed off with your tail between your legs

[JamesWales]

Re: You gov polling

Why don't you take a break again ?

40 years of so would be great

You would still come back with your yeah but no nonsense as you are a tory bore but at least it would give us a rest from your nauseating crap

You are a tory you will be a tory at the next election even after the last 13 years and until you snuff it

So do us a favour and have another holiday , you last about a week before you start sucking up to them again after you have waltzed off with your tail between your legs

Just pointing out that it's 2024 and Thatcher was elected getting on for half a century ago. It's unlikely that her policies have zero impact on housing today, but going on about her doesn't mean you can ignore the multitude of issues since.

[Jordi Culé]

Re: You gov polling

I'll just leave this here...

https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news...20the%20policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/29/how-right-to-buy-ruined-british-housing

Whose policy was it again?

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: You gov polling

I'll just leave this here...

https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news...20the%20policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/29/how-right-to-buy-ruined-british-housing

Whose policy was it again?

It's also worth adding this. Scrapped by a Welsh Labour Government. The one that's supposed to be useless according to many on here. Think how much worse it could be. https://www.gov.wales/right-buy-end-wales-month

Just to add, and it is relevant, in Grangetown I've liaised with local community groups regarding Social Housing issues for a few years now, and Vaughn Gething has been amazing regarding his support and getting things done. Stephen Doherty our MP not so much. Never replied to any communications. Welsh Labour is a different party to Starmer's and I can't stand the fact they are connected in any way.

Maybe this will explain my views regarding a GE.

https://nation.cymru/news/welsh-government-comes-under-fire-as-uk-labour-u-turns-on-opposition-to-right-to-buy/

[JamesWales]

Re: You gov polling

I'll just leave this here...

https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news...20the%20policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jun/29/how-right-to-buy-ruined-british-housing

Whose policy was it again?

My personal opinion is that allowing working class people to financially benefit from the house they live in is not necessarily a bad thing. The problem is in the lack of new social housing built.

My family history is that both sets of grandparents died in council housing. Nothing was passed onto my parents. My ex partners father bought his council house and when he passed was the first of his family to pass any wealth of note onto his family. I don't view that as a dreadful thing, as wealth is power and when working class people are largely prevented from obtaining it that isn't a great thing.

But I also don't support a declining social housing stock. I think we need to do more of it and I'd happily see this organised at a UK level (GB housing?) to streamline procurement etc. Not sure it would work in practice but I'd be okay with it.

But the big issue is this. The article talks about 96000 homes sold since 2012. All of whom we assume went to people who previously lived in them, so people effectively bought their own homes.

But those 96000 homes. Maybe they house 250,000, all of which are of course still housed and the receipts can be used to build new social housing, even if not enough of it.

In those same years since 2012 net immigration was about 3million. More than 10 times that figure.

We could have not sold a single council house in the UK. We could have built one for everyone one sold. We could have built five for every one sold and it still would only be half the net immigration figure.

The reality is it's all pissing in the wind until demand is kept under greater control. Not just on immigration, but second homes, Airbnb and the rest of it too. It's completely distorting both the housing market and in turn land values more generally. Like your local community pub? Forget that when you can get 35 flats on the same plot of land

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: You gov polling

This is interesting re. voting and Party Politics: ‘Not bothered about us’: voters in Lee Anderson’s seat reject all parties https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ll-politicians

[Jordi Culé]

Re: You gov polling

My personal opinion is that allowing working class people to financially benefit from the house they live in is not necessarily a bad thing. The problem is in the lack of new social housing built.

My family history is that both sets of grandparents died in council housing. Nothing was passed onto my parents. My ex partners father bought his council house and when he passed was the first of his family to pass any wealth of note onto his family. I don't view that as a dreadful thing, as wealth is power and when working class people are largely prevented from obtaining it that isn't a great thing.

But I also don't support a declining social housing stock. I think we need to do more of it and I'd happily see this organised at a UK level (GB housing?) to streamline procurement etc. Not sure it would work in practice but I'd be okay with it.

But the big issue is this. The article talks about 96000 homes sold since 2012. All of whom we assume went to people who previously lived in them, so people effectively bought their own homes.

But those 96000 homes. Maybe they house 250,000, all of which are of course still housed and the receipts can be used to build new social housing, even if not enough of it.

In those same years since 2012 net immigration was about 3million. More than 10 times that figure.

We could have not sold a single council house in the UK. We could have built one for everyone one sold. We could have built five for every one sold and it still would only be half the net immigration figure.

The reality is it's all pissing in the wind until demand is kept under greater control. Not just on immigration, but second homes, Airbnb and the rest of it too. It's completely distorting both the housing market and in turn land values more generally. Like your local community pub? Forget that when you can get 35 flats on the same plot of land

There were lots of consequences which could've been envisaged which have further impacted on housing in the UK.

It's been a while since I've done anything with housing but there were figures from research around 2018 that showed 40% of sold RTB stock had ended up in the private rented sector.