Workers Party of Britain

[pipster]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Remind me why we've had so many by elections since the last general election again?
Ok Rochdale is after a death but I'm sure a fair few others have been along the lines of bullies and sex pests resigning as Tory MPs

Wasnt that Tory MPs who have been kicked out the house of commons (and rightly so) whilst in this case it's a former Labour MP (sex pest) and a future Labour MP (you will know what his views are against Jews / Israel are) who will be going back IN to the house of commons.

The Guardian are the remaining whipless MPs here there was also the strange case of Labour MP Jarard o'Mara - identified by the Guardian here and there was Peter Bone (I think he resigned / sacked) wandering hands. But as said these are MPs being kicked out not going back into the HoC under the Labour whip

[JamesWales]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

I'd happily vote for anybody who banned flags altogether.

It doesn't really feel fair, these people already have to live in Rochdale and now they are left to pick through this mess as well.

🤣🤣

[jon1959]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Wasnt that Tory MPs who have been kicked out the house of commons (and rightly so) whilst in this case it's a former Labour MP (sex pest) and a future Labour MP (you will know what his views are against Jews / Israel are) who will be going back IN to the house of commons.

The Guardian are the remaining whipless MPs here there was also the strange case of Labour MP Jarard o'Mara - identified by the Guardian here and there was Peter Bone (I think he resigned / sacked) wandering hands. But as said these are MPs being kicked out not going back into the HoC under the Labour whip

I know I will regret this, but what are Azher Ali's views 'against Jews'?

He is clearly not a fan of Israel and has stupidly endorsed a conspiracy theory about 7 October. He has also given support to another suspended Labour MP who advocated peace and justice in Israel/Palestine. But don't hide or dodge. What has he said that you believe is anti semitic or hostile to Jews? He may have done that, but I haven't seen it. Up until 36 hours ago he had the full support of Louise Ellman who was telling anyone who would listen that Azhar Ali was a long-standing friend of the Jewish community.

Labour was right to dump him as a candidate - and should have done it earlier. The delay and the inconsistency of reaction to these situations - and the misuse of language - (highlighted again today by Martin Forde) has exposed their hypocrisy and incompetence.

But what were his 'views against Jews'? As I said further up this thread, if you are just substituting 'Jews' for 'Israel' in your allegation then you really need to do something about your own anti Semitism.

And while we are at it, what the hell (wake up Truthpaste!) does this mean:

'The Guardian are the remaining whipless MPs here there was also the strange case of Labour MP Jarard o'Mara - identified by the Guardian here and there was Peter Bone (I think he resigned / sacked) wandering hands. But as said these are MPs being kicked out not going back into the HoC under the Labour whip'

I have genuinely tried to make sense of it, but failed dismally. Are you typing under the influence?

[jon1959]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Just seen this Guardian piece about the Labour councillors meeting where the comments were made that were leaked to, and reported by, the Daily Mail.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/13/grassroots-labour-meeting-party-turmoil-suspended-candidates-azhar-ali-graham-jones

Not sure what Graham Jones said that was wrong. Embarrassing for Starmer, certainly, but just saying '****ing Israel again" and arguing that no UK citizen should be fighting in the armed forced of another state unless there was a formal alliance with the UK is a reasonable position.

Azher Ali went full conspiracy nut. But the only thing he said that might be construed as anti Semitic was:

'In another recording, Ali said “people in the media from certain Jewish quarters” were “giving crap” about the MP Andy McDonald, who was suspended by Labour after he used the controversial phrase “between the river and the sea” in a speech during a rally.'

I assume he is talking about the Board of Deputies of British Jews, the Jewish Labour Movement, the Leadership Council and the Campaign Against Antisemitism. They are all pro-Israel, Zionist lobby groups - some affiliated with Labour, some with closer ties to the UK Tories and to Likud in Israel. He should not have implied that they represent Jews or speak for Jews in the UK (even though some of them claim that). The 'crap' wasn't coming from 'certain Jewish quarters', it was coming from pro Israel lobby groups. It was a political intervention, not one from a monolithic religious/cultural community. In that one respect he was flirting with a racist comment.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Wasnt that Tory MPs who have been kicked out the house of commons (and rightly so) whilst in this case it's a former Labour MP (sex pest) and a future Labour MP (you will know what his views are against Jews / Israel are) who will be going back IN to the house of commons.

The Guardian are the remaining whipless MPs here there was also the strange case of Labour MP Jarard o'Mara - identified by the Guardian here and there was Peter Bone (I think he resigned / sacked) wandering hands. But as said these are MPs being kicked out not going back into the HoC under the Labour whip

So Labour is picking the Reform Party and the Workers Party of Britain candidates in this by election are they?

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Just seen this Guardian piece about the Labour councillors meeting where the comments were made that were leaked to, and reported by, the Daily Mail.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/13/grassroots-labour-meeting-party-turmoil-suspended-candidates-azhar-ali-graham-jones

Not sure what Graham Jones said that was wrong. Embarrassing for Starmer, certainly, but just saying '****ing Israel again" and arguing that no UK citizen should be fighting in the armed forced of another state unless there was a formal alliance with the UK is a reasonable position.

Azher Ali went full conspiracy nut. But the only thing he said that might be construed as anti Semitic was:

'In another recording, Ali said “people in the media from certain Jewish quarters” were “giving crap” about the MP Andy McDonald, who was suspended by Labour after he used the controversial phrase “between the river and the sea” in a speech during a rally.'

I assume he is talking about the Board of Deputies of British Jews, the Jewish Labour Movement, the Leadership Council and the Campaign Against Antisemitism. They are all pro-Israel, Zionist lobby groups - some affiliated with Labour, some with closer ties to the UK Tories and to Likud in Israel. He should not have implied that they represent Jews or speak for Jews in the UK (even though some of them claim that). The 'crap' wasn't coming from 'certain Jewish quarters', it was coming from pro Israel lobby groups. It was a political intervention, not one from a monolithic religious/cultural community. In that one respect he was flirting with a racist comment.

Interesting quote in the headline piece of the G just now: “He acted very swiftly to do something no Labour leader or no party leader has done before, which was to suspend the campaigning support for our own candidate in the middle of a byelection.”

I see that anyone within earshot is now being targeted as 'unworthy'. Something that has to be challenged regularly is this absurd notion that the critique of Israel is antisemitic. There is no diplomatic way forward with that mindset.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/14/starmer-councillors-meeting-israel-comments-azhar-ali-rochdale-labour

[jon1959]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Interesting quote in the headline piece of the G just now: “He acted very swiftly to do something no Labour leader or no party leader has done before, which was to suspend the campaigning support for our own candidate in the middle of a byelection.”

I see that anyone within earshot is now being targeted as 'unworthy'. Something that has to be challenged regularly is this absurd notion that the critique of Israel is antisemitic. There is no diplomatic way forward with that mindset.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ochdale-labour

Absolutely.

I was watching Sky and BBC news last night and both - in a single report from a single reporter - chose to describe the Graham Jones comments as 'offensive' at one point, 'inappropriate' at another, and finally felt the need to throw in 'antisemitic'. They may well have been offensive or inappropriate (not to me) but they certainly were not antisemitic.

It has become part of the lazy and politically loaded currency of political parties and media in much of the west (global north) to accept the redefinition of antisemitism that has been pushed by Israel, its lobbyists and proxies for over 40 years - that criticism of Israel or of its state ideology (Zionism) is antisemitic. It is one area where Israel has made progress in the court of public opinion - or at least public discourse. It went the other way when the label of apartheid stuck, and now that the charge of genocide is getting massive traction in the global south and pockets of the global north.

It is using distorted language and warped (IHRA) definitions for political purposes. But it also undermines work to tackle the real antisemitism that has escalated alongside Islamophobia in recent times - and perversely validates those who blame Jews around the world for the crimes of the Israeli state. So we end up in the bizarre place where Israeli and western leaders use antisemitic tropes to justify Israeli political or military actions, where anti Zionist Jews in their tens or hundreds of thousands are denounced as anti semites, and where racists regularly denounce anti-racists as racist!

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Absolutely.

I was watching Sky and BBC news last night and both - in a single report from a single reporter - chose to describe the Graham Jones comments as 'offensive' at one point, 'inappropriate' at another, and finally felt the need to throw in 'antisemitic'. They may well have been offensive or inappropriate (not to me) but they certainly were not antisemitic.

It has become part of the lazy and politically loaded currency of political parties and media in much of the west (global north) to accept the redefinition of antisemitism that has been pushed by Israel, its lobbyists and proxies for over 40 years - that criticism of Israel or of its state ideology (Zionism) is antisemitic. It is one area where Israel has made progress in the court of public opinion - or at least public discourse. It went the other way when the label of apartheid stuck, and now that the charge of genocide is getting massive traction in the global south and pockets of the global north.

It is using distorted language and warped (IHRA) definitions for political purposes. But it also undermines work to tackle the real antisemitism that has escalated alongside Islamophobia in recent times - and perversely validates those who blame Jews around the world for the crimes of the Israeli state. So we end up in the bizarre place where Israeli and western leaders use antisemitic tropes to justify Israeli political or military actions, where anti Zionist Jews in their tens or hundreds of thousands are denounced as anti semites, and where racists regularly denounce anti-racists as racist!

I think Ali should have been sacked straight away but Graham Jones seems a scapegoat

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Absolutely.

I was watching Sky and BBC news last night and both - in a single report from a single reporter - chose to describe the Graham Jones comments as 'offensive' at one point, 'inappropriate' at another, and finally felt the need to throw in 'antisemitic'. They may well have been offensive or inappropriate (not to me) but they certainly were not antisemitic.

It has become part of the lazy and politically loaded currency of political parties and media in much of the west (global north) to accept the redefinition of antisemitism that has been pushed by Israel, its lobbyists and proxies for over 40 years - that criticism of Israel or of its state ideology (Zionism) is antisemitic. It is one area where Israel has made progress in the court of public opinion - or at least public discourse. It went the other way when the label of apartheid stuck, and now that the charge of genocide is getting massive traction in the global south and pockets of the global north.

It is using distorted language and warped (IHRA) definitions for political purposes. But it also undermines work to tackle the real antisemitism that has escalated alongside Islamophobia in recent times - and perversely validates those who blame Jews around the world for the crimes of the Israeli state. So we end up in the bizarre place where Israeli and western leaders use antisemitic tropes to justify Israeli political or military actions, where anti Zionist Jews in their tens or hundreds of thousands are denounced as anti semites, and where racists regularly denounce anti-racists as racist!

It's like Arthur Miller and the McCarthy Witch hunt

[Heathblue]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Not read the Fred but if it's about the guy saying the massacre was allowed by netunyahoo I think he was correct, one of if not the most secure border in the world gets penetrated and no response for about 6 hours??? C'mon man!!!!! Hard to comprehend but this IMO was planned and executed willfully, the only question for me is if the Biden war machine was involved or if it was a lone strike by Netunyahoo, the labour MP should be allowed his opinion, the lobby has gone after and got him.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

Absolutely.

I was watching Sky and BBC news last night and both - in a single report from a single reporter - chose to describe the Graham Jones comments as 'offensive' at one point, 'inappropriate' at another, and finally felt the need to throw in 'antisemitic'. They may well have been offensive or inappropriate (not to me) but they certainly were not antisemitic.

It has become part of the lazy and politically loaded currency of political parties and media in much of the west (global north) to accept the redefinition of antisemitism that has been pushed by Israel, its lobbyists and proxies for over 40 years - that criticism of Israel or of its state ideology (Zionism) is antisemitic. It is one area where Israel has made progress in the court of public opinion - or at least public discourse. It went the other way when the label of apartheid stuck, and now that the charge of genocide is getting massive traction in the global south and pockets of the global north.

It is using distorted language and warped (IHRA) definitions for political purposes. But it also undermines work to tackle the real antisemitism that has escalated alongside Islamophobia in recent times - and perversely validates those who blame Jews around the world for the crimes of the Israeli state. So we end up in the bizarre place where Israeli and western leaders use antisemitic tropes to justify Israeli political or military actions, where anti Zionist Jews in their tens or hundreds of thousands are denounced as anti semites, and where racists regularly denounce anti-racists as racist!

This is probably one of the best summaries of the current, dangerous, farcical use of the term I've read in a while. I'm genuinely tired of it and Sludge just made a good analogy to the McArthyesque nature of this. Starmer could become the next Hoover if things carry on in the current political trajectory. That's a terrifying prospect for the Labour Party and UK politics. But worst of all, all of this is now the side-show to sorting out people's lives, their needs, and health. It's so depressing. I feel for the people of Rochdale.

[jon1959]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

This is probably one of the best summaries of the current, dangerous, farcical use of the term I've read in a while. I'm genuinely tired of it and Sludge just made a good analogy to the McArthyesque nature of this. Starmer could become the next Hoover if things carry on in the current political trajectory. That's a terrifying prospect for the Labour Party and UK politics. But worst of all, all of this is now the side-show to sorting out people's lives, their needs, and health. It's so depressing. I feel for the people of Rochdale.

I really must stop watching the BBC and Sky news! But interesting that today both have given prominent apologies for yesterday saying that Andy McDonald (see above the Azher Ali recorded comment from the Labour councillors meeting in October that the Mail published) had the Labour whip suspended for making anti semitic statements. Just the Guardian to apologise now? What McDonald said that has led to his purge by Starmer was:

“We won’t rest until we have justice. Until all people, Israelis and Palestinians, between the river and the sea can live in peaceful liberty.”

[life on mars]

Re: Workers Party of Britain

What are we becoming.