What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

[Jordi Culé]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

So, what is it then?

Faith in Jesus the person is fundamental to Christianity as whole, not just to me, but to Christians everywhere.

The Bible is not a single book. It consists of two sections, the Old Testament (OT) and the New Testament (NT).
The Old Testament is a collection of thirty-nine books about the history and religion of the people of Israel. Each book possesses a unique tone, style, and message. Individually, they include stories, laws, and sayings that are intended to function as models of religious and ethical conduct. Together, through hundreds of characters and detailed events, they represent a unified narrative about God and his attempt to relate to humankind by relating to a specific group of people.

There is a lot of discussion about the OT, about its historical accuracy and whether some of the stories are factual or based on myths and legends. As TP has said thanks to archaeological studies more and more is being discovered about the accuracy of the information therein. Some things we will never be able to prove but the bottom line for me is that the OT predicts the coming of the Messiah – Jesus.

To me the NT, consisting of 27 books, is the all important part of the Bible (TP will probably disagree with me for lessening the importance of the OT!). It describes the coming of Jesus, his life and times and his words and works here on Earth. It ends with his resurrection after being put to death by crucifixion, then the beginnings of the Christian church and what follows on from that.

The OT I accept as the history and religion of the people of Israel i.e. the Jews and I don't get too hung up on the some of the stranger stuff therein as it has little bearing on the way I and others should live our lives as Christians i.e. as a Gentile follower of Jesus subject to the new covenant, rather than an OT Jew under the old covenant.

From Jesus's teaching it is clear that he is far more concerned about the heart of a person (rather than whether we believe in talking snakes etc.), how we love God and our fellow human beings by putting our faith into action i.e. walking the walk rather than talking the talk!

Thanks Gofer for your heartfelt and personal thoughts which are interesting to read as you've taken some time to consider your relationship to your chosen religion after much reading.

I don't see that as definition though, it reads more like your individual feelings on the matter.

[truthpaste]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

Thanks Gofer for your heartfelt and personal thoughts which are interesting to read as you've taken some time to consider your relationship to your chosen religion after much reading.

I don't see that as definition though, it reads more like your individual feelings on the matter.

I believe that's all we are looking for, to hear and consider other peoples views.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

Thanks Gofer for your heartfelt and personal thoughts which are interesting to read as you've taken some time to consider your relationship to your chosen religion after much reading.

I don't see that as definition though, it reads more like your individual feelings on the matter.

Thanks for your response. OK, so, I'll try to define it in just two sentences – difficult to condense it any further:

A Christian fundamentalist is someone who puts his faith and trust in Jesus Christ and believes that he is God in human form. He/she follows the example set by Jesus by which God expects they should live, whilst accepting that they are human and will never be fully Christ-like, but by his grace they are justified.

Earlier in this thread TBG has defined fundamentalists as: Religious fundamentalists are usually considered to be those who believe that stories in their religious tomes are literal and not metaphorical. I have come across this definition of course but this is only a part of the picture for Christians.

In response to this I would say that for the vast majority of times it is clear when a Bible story is a literal one or metaphorical one but I hold my hands up and admit that there are occasions when that is not clear cut. If I could travel back in time and be a frontline witness I would know for sure but that is not going to happen. All I can say is that if God is indeed the creator of everything, then the seemingly impossible (to 21st century eyes) must be possible?

Again, can I stress that my faith is in Jesus himself. Although he made references to the Old Testament, he rarely mentions much outside the OT books of Isaiah or the Psalms (I found this useful reference about this here: https://biblecentral.info/library/ch...-jesus-christ/ ) In fact, on reading this, I was surprised how little he did quote from the OT.

If some of the more controversial events were that important to Jesus/God he would surely have emphasised them I think, hence I don't worry about them. In fact I think they can be a useful deflection tool for non-believers who would secretly rather that Jesus/God didn't exist, or to demonstrate their supposed intellectual superiority over those who are believers.

Finally, I would be interested to see how you would define “a fundamentalist”.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

I didn't 'define' anything. I stated what is widely understood by as being the definition of the word.

[Jordi Culé]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

Thanks for your response. OK, so, I'll try to define it in just two sentences – difficult to condense it any further:

A Christian fundamentalist is someone who puts his faith and trust in Jesus Christ and believes that he is God in human form. He/she follows the example set by Jesus by which God expects they should live, whilst accepting that they are human and will never be fully Christ-like, but by his grace they are justified.

Earlier in this thread TBG has defined fundamentalists as: Religious fundamentalists are usually considered to be those who believe that stories in their religious tomes are literal and not metaphorical. I have come across this definition of course but this is only a part of the picture for Christians.

In response to this I would say that for the vast majority of times it is clear when a Bible story is a literal one or metaphorical one but I hold my hands up and admit that there are occasions when that is not clear cut. If I could travel back in time and be a frontline witness I would know for sure but that is not going to happen. All I can say is that if God is indeed the creator of everything, then the seemingly impossible (to 21st century eyes) must be possible?

Again, can I stress that my faith is in Jesus himself. Although he made references to the Old Testament, he rarely mentions much outside the OT books of Isaiah or the Psalms (I found this useful reference about this here: https://biblecentral.info/library/ch...-jesus-christ/ ) In fact, on reading this, I was surprised how little he did quote from the OT.

If some of the more controversial events were that important to Jesus/God he would surely have emphasised them I think, hence I don't worry about them. In fact I think they can be a useful deflection tool for non-believers who would secretly rather that Jesus/God didn't exist, or to demonstrate their supposed intellectual superiority over those who are believers.

Finally, I would be interested to see how you would define “a fundamentalist”.

Religious fundamentalism is the practice of either an individual or a group that look for literal interpretations of original religious books or text. They then practice these teaching in all aspects yo their lives. They believe that their beliefs are the only ones that are 'true' and there is no other interpretation. There is no other option or alternatives to beliefs or teachings.

I have a negative opinion as the lack of flexibility or willingness to accept other people's opinions or beliefs I find confrontational and not pragmatic. It also limits to compromise.

I throwing in that individual religious fundamentalism such as your own differs wildly from some group fundamentalism which is much more problematic in some parts of the world and included violence, retribution and tyranny.

Although you have very strong convictions and beliefs about your faith I'd suggest you also have the capacity to compromise.

The fundamentalism I was referring to, in the context of my original post differs greatly to your understanding and another context all together.

Best of luck to you butt.

[truthpaste]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

We're using different meanings, interpretation of the word 'fundamentalist'.

The context of our respective use of the word is also very different.

You know this though.

That's very true. The issue is, most people throw the word at individuals assuming there is only one meaning!
Like many english words, it has at least two meanings and in this case depending on which one you mean, they fall in both the positive and negative categories.

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

....just for fun....A fundamentalist, at the core, adheres staunchly to the fundamental principles of a particular doctrine, often showcasing an unwavering commitment to the foundational tenets that form the very fundament of their beliefs. This adherence is not merely superficial; it is fundamentally rooted in a deep-seated conviction that the base principles are not just central but absolutely essential. The mindset of a fundamentalist, thus, revolves around preserving the purity of these core ideals, considering them the fundamental axis around which their entire belief system orbits, often leading to a rigid interpretation that eschews deviation from what is perceived as the fundamental truth.....

TED talk at Grangetown Pavilion 2 hours before KO on Saturday. Bring food.

Edit: I've played all the Assassin's Creed games and I am a hidden one.

[jon1959]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

Well fundament means 'buttocks', 'arse' or 'a nus'.

So I'm guessing fundamentalist means.......

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

Well fundament means 'buttocks', 'arse' or 'a nus'.

So I'm guessing fundamentalist means.......

[Gofer Blue]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

....just for fun....A fundamentalist, at the core, adheres staunchly to the fundamental principles of a particular doctrine, often showcasing an unwavering commitment to the foundational tenets that form the very fundament of their beliefs. This adherence is not merely superficial; it is fundamentally rooted in a deep-seated conviction that the base principles are not just central but absolutely essential. The mindset of a fundamentalist, thus, revolves around preserving the purity of these core ideals, considering them the fundamental axis around which their entire belief system orbits, often leading to a rigid interpretation that eschews deviation from what is perceived as the fundamental truth.....

TED talk at Grangetown Pavilion 2 hours before KO on Saturday. Bring food.

Edit: I've played all the Assassin's Creed games and I am a hidden one.

Brilliant Ever thought of becoming a politician? Clearly you have the ability to make a long and apparently meaningful sounding speech whilst actually saying very little!

[Gofer Blue]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

Religious fundamentalism is the practice of either an individual or a group that look for literal interpretations of original religious books or text. They then practice these teaching in all aspects yo their lives. They believe that their beliefs are the only ones that are 'true' and there is no other interpretation. There is no other option or alternatives to beliefs or teachings.

I have a negative opinion as the lack of flexibility or willingness to accept other people's opinions or beliefs I find confrontational and not pragmatic. It also limits to compromise.

I throwing in that individual religious fundamentalism such as your own differs wildly from some group fundamentalism which is much more problematic in some parts of the world and included violence, retribution and tyranny.

Although you have very strong convictions and beliefs about your faith I'd suggest you also have the capacity to compromise.

The fundamentalism I was referring to, in the context of my original post differs greatly to your understanding and another context all together.

Best of luck to you butt.

You probably should not make that assumption about me. Yes, have a strong faith and I am a much more compassionate person since becoming a Christian, (probably deemed a “nice person” in the eyes of the world), but don't forget I am a follower of Jesus.

Now Jesus also had very strong beliefs, was tolerant, but uncompromising. Unlike the “religious” people of his time he was at ease mixing with the “undesirable” folk like prostitutes, beggars, lepers, tax collectors (who were despised as they were collaborators with the hated Roman occupiers) etc. I would argue that if he was intolerant or judgemental of these people he would have stayed well clear of them.

There is the example of the woman who was caught having sex with a man who was not her husband and in accordance with the Jewish law she was about to be stoned to death by a crowd but Jesus intervened. He spoke those now famous words: let anyone of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her, (John 8:7-11) whereby the crowd quietly drifted away, one by one. Jesus had saved the woman from death but then he said to her, go now and leave your life of sin, an uncompromising message if ever there was one i.e. he loved the sinner but hated the sin. He unashamedly did not compromise in any way, but he had compassion on her.

I believe that Jesus was God in human form so in that way he 100% knew what it was like to be human, subject to all the same things that we are: pain, love, moods, temptations, anger etc., yet, unlike me and every person on planet Earth, he was sinless. Other faiths deny this and believe he was just a good human being. I can tolerate the fact that they have this opinion but that's between them and God. I will not compromise my position.

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6). At face value this seems to be a very arrogant statement, but there is no escaping it, it is crystal clear and he said it! Now folk can either accept it or reject it as being a typical piece of Christian dogma. Again, folk should be made aware of it (that's my job as a Christian so they have a chance to consider it*) but of course they have the free will to make their own decision. It's between them and God, I've done my bit so please leave me out of it. Rest assured I will not resort to coercion or violence or remove parts of anyone's anatomy to “convince” them!

I go about my daily life trying to live in peace with everyone I come across as Jesus would expect me to, but I am not a saint in the vernacular sense (although in the biblical sense I am). The apostle Paul wrote that these are the attributes of a “real” Christian: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5: 22-23). I can put my hand up and honestly say that I fail every day in most of these!

*”The Great Commission” - Jesus told his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have told you. And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age”
(Matthew 28:16-20).

[Jordi Culé]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

You probably should not make that assumption about me. Yes, have a strong faith and I am a much more compassionate person since becoming a Christian, (probably deemed a “nice person” in the eyes of the world), but don't forget I am a follower of Jesus.

Now Jesus also had very strong beliefs, was tolerant, but uncompromising. Unlike the “religious” people of his time he was at ease mixing with the “undesirable” folk like prostitutes, beggars, lepers, tax collectors (who were despised as they were collaborators with the hated Roman occupiers) etc. I would argue that if he was intolerant or judgemental of these people he would have stayed well clear of them.

There is the example of the woman who was caught having sex with a man who was not her husband and in accordance with the Jewish law she was about to be stoned to death by a crowd but Jesus intervened. He spoke those now famous words: let anyone of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her, (John 8:7-11) whereby the crowd quietly drifted away, one by one. Jesus had saved the woman from death but then he said to her, go now and leave your life of sin, an uncompromising message if ever there was one i.e. he loved the sinner but hated the sin. He unashamedly did not compromise in any way, but he had compassion on her.

I believe that Jesus was God in human form so in that way he 100% knew what it was like to be human, subject to all the same things that we are: pain, love, moods, temptations, anger etc., yet, unlike me and every person on planet Earth, he was sinless. Other faiths deny this and believe he was just a good human being. I can tolerate the fact that they have this opinion but that's between them and God. I will not compromise my position.

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” (John 14:6). At face value this seems to be a very arrogant statement, but there is no escaping it, it is crystal clear and he said it! Now folk can either accept it or reject it as being a typical piece of Christian dogma. Again, folk should be made aware of it (that's my job as a Christian so they have a chance to consider it*) but of course they have the free will to make their own decision. It's between them and God, I've done my bit so please leave me out of it. Rest assured I will not resort to coercion or violence or remove parts of anyone's anatomy to “convince” them!

I go about my daily life trying to live in peace with everyone I come across as Jesus would expect me to, but I am not a saint in the vernacular sense (although in the biblical sense I am). The apostle Paul wrote that these are the attributes of a “real” Christian: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. (Galatians 5: 22-23). I can put my hand up and honestly say that I fail every day in most of these!

*”The Great Commission” - Jesus told his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have told you. And surely I am with you always, even to the very end of the age”
(Matthew 28:16-20).

Thanks Gofer.

An interesting read on your personal thoughts, reflections and how you practice and live by your beliefs.

The tolerance and compassion you practice towards others is only due to your beliefs, you didn't hold these qualities prior to becoming a committed follower of Jesus?

The contrast between your understanding of God is a massive contrast to the Christian Nationalism of some groups in the USA who advocate living and practicing religious values from the Old Testament and this includes stoning individuals for adultery.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/execution-stoning-christian-nationalism-1234797127/

Different interpretations of God and how he would act I suppose?

[truthpaste]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

Thanks Gofer.

An interesting read on your personal thoughts, reflections and how you practice and live by your beliefs.

The tolerance and compassion you practice towards others is only due to your beliefs, you didn't hold these qualities prior to becoming a committed follower of Jesus?

The contrast between your understanding of God is a massive contrast to the Christian Nationalism of some groups in the USA who advocate living and practicing religious values from the Old Testament and this includes stoning individuals for adultery.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/execution-stoning-christian-nationalism-1234797127/

Different interpretations of God and how he would act I suppose?

I'm sure Gofer will give you another helpful reply, however just on your final point of 'interpreting' God and His Word, the Bible:-

1. Like any book, we should never dive in and out to extract information without knowing the surrounding context. So many people do, and end up misrepresenting that book, whatever it may be.
2. While Christians still read and learn from the Old Testament, it now mainly provides a platform and deeper interpretaion for what we discover in the New Testament (NT); and in the NT we read about the origin of the Church (see Acts chapter 2) and therefore the instructions (New Covenant) that God has for today, which does NOT include stoning people! There is a lot more to this than what I have said, this is just an overview of the contrast between the Old and New Testaments and God's dealings with mankind.
If you have further questions then please don't hold back.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

Thanks Gofer.

An interesting read on your personal thoughts, reflections and how you practice and live by your beliefs.

The tolerance and compassion you practice towards others is only due to your beliefs, you didn't hold these qualities prior to becoming a committed follower of Jesus?

The contrast between your understanding of God is a massive contrast to the Christian Nationalism of some groups in the USA who advocate living and practicing religious values from the Old Testament and this includes stoning individuals for adultery.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/execution-stoning-christian-nationalism-1234797127/

Different interpretations of God and how he would act I suppose?

Jordi – in answer to your first question, no, I did not hold those qualities before I became a Christian. I was intolerant, judgemental and very lacking in compassion! I am ashamed to admit it but on occasions these traits can occasionally still creep into my mind when I observe what is going on in the world. My main negative reaction these days is anger, anger at all the injustices in the world. I can even get angry with God which is stupid really as the things I get angry about are man-made, but I guess he is big enough to take it.

Re your second question: I am very wary of far right American Christians, not that I know any personally but from what I observe on TV and also from some of the YouTube videos that are out there. One sickening image I remember was of Donald Trump waving a Bible about in front of a church in the USA somewhere. The verse that comes to mind is: By their deeds you will know them. Does a man gather grapes from thorns or figs from briars?” (Matthew 7:16).

The story in the link you provided is quite shocking. As I’ve said before, Jesus came with a new covenant which supercedes the OT covenant. It was quite common in OT days for folk to sacrifice animals as burnt offerings to God as atonement for their sins but Jesus himself was ultimately the supreme sacrifice so this practice is no longer necessary.

The OT takes sin very seriously, as a contamination that can disrupt the good order God places in creation and that can potentially cause chaos in the world. To cleanse sin from the community, life was required. I think Moses who gave the laws to the people was overzealous in his understanding of what God wanted. It was very important to keep order especially when the Jews were involved in the exodus. Of course, it’s very difficult for us 21st century folk to get our head around these ancient customs. Maybe this is where these American Christian Nationalists are getting their ideas from i.e. remove offenders from society (permanently) in order to maintain social order!

[truthpaste]

Re: What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

I agree with Gofer Blue's comments (above) and when he says:

To cleanse sin from the community, life was required. I think Moses who gave the laws to the people was overzealous in his understanding of what God wanted. It was very important to keep order especially when the Jews were involved in the exodus. Of course, it’s very difficult for us 21st century folk to get our head around these ancient customs.

I just want to say that God gave us the Law (mainly via Moses) to show us that we are all law breakers, and don't meet His required standards. Or as Romans 3v23 puts it, "For ALL have sinned and fall short of God's glory" - only one Man in history has ever lived and met those standards, and that of course is Christ Jesus.
We will all ultimately die because we are sinners, 'the wages of sin is death' (Romans 6v23), however death could NOT take Christ, because He was without sin - so to fulfill His Mission - He chose to lay down His perfect life (on the Cross) as an offering to God the Father so that we (through that perfect sacrifice) can be declared righteous before a Holy God. Everyone who repents and accepts that Gift of forgiveness and choose Christ as their Lord & God will be forgiven, immediately and forever.

This is the key message of the entire Bible, and I appreciate that the above summary may produce many other questions; however if you want to ask them here of via PM then I would be delighted to answer them.