Assisted dying

[Taunton Blue Genie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68954101

This is an issue that interests me and for several reasons I won't go into.

I think we all understand that the need to be protect the vulnerable from relatives who may want to coerce them for malevolent purposes but I don't think that everyone should be denied the the right to end their lives in some circumstances where they consider their condition to be very serious, intolerable, irreversible and permanent/worsening.
(From enquiries I have made, the process with Switzerland-based Dignitas takes several months and 'acceptance' is not guaranteed. It's also very costly).

Yes, a lot of safeguarding laws and regulations need to be put in place but there must be an alternative to suicide for those who are determined to end their lives when they choose (and some people whose physical or mental condition worsens considerably are the least able to commit suicide anyway).

I would be grateful if the religious contributors don't pile in with their views on this one as we have enough religious arguments on the message board already.

[Robin Friday's Ghost]

Re: Assisted dying

I'm unsure. I can see why someome would want to take this route. I'm not sure how many doctors would be willing to be involved though, however sympathetic they were to their patient's plight. It's not what they signed up for with their hippocratic oath.

[JamesWales]

Re: Assisted dying

I think TBG outlines the reasons why we need to be cautious. This cant be a quick decision, it will need sign off from different professionals and family members etc but ultimately I think it's something I support.

Life is miserable for many, who may live in constant pain with no or very low quality of life, whilst being aware of the impact on their loved ones.

I think it will be normalised in future and whilst that doesnt fill me with joy I think we have a right to live our lives how we wish and that includes our deaths

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Assisted dying

The goalposts are already starting to move in Canada.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Assisted dying

I think TBG outlines the reasons why we need to be cautious. This cant be a quick decision, it will need sign off from different professionals and family members etc but ultimately I think it's something I support.

Life is miserable for many, who may live in constant pain with no or very low quality of life, whilst being aware of the impact on their loved ones.

I think it will be normalised in future and whilst that doesnt fill me with joy I think we have a right to live our lives how we wish and that includes our deaths

I understand your comment about having the permission of family members but as we are adults, I don't agree. I would not want anyone in my family overriding my decision on sentimental grounds and when they are not living a life of pain and disability that I may have - and denying me autonomy in such matters. We may not even have much contact with our closest relatives and/or we may have little in common with the way they think or live their own lives.

(The above is a scenario purely for discussion and I am, thankfully, not in that situation myself - although it may happens one day. Who knows?).

[jon1959]

Re: Assisted dying

I am 100% in favour.

Dignity and control as far as possible.

Individual choice.

There have to be some safeguards - but not the sort that stop the majority from making this choice for themselves.

No interference from religious/faith cultists hiding behind the ‘ethics’ label.

[goats]

Re: Assisted dying

After what I’ve just gone through watching my mother slowly die for the last month, I would say it would be a good idea to be able to end any suffering sooner. It was horrendous….

[jeepster]

Re: Assisted dying

After what I’ve just gone through watching my mother slowly die for the last month, I would say it would be a good idea to be able to end any suffering sooner. It was horrendous….

What a horrible thing to have to go through,deepest sympathy to you and family.
I totally agree with you.

[Tuerto]

Re: Assisted dying

I understand your comment about having the permission of family members but as we are adults, I don't agree. I would not want anyone in my family overriding my decision on sentimental grounds and when they are not living a life of pain and disability that I may have - and denying me autonomy in such matters. We may not even have much contact with our closest relatives and/or we may have little in common with the way they think or live their own lives.

(The above is a scenario purely for discussion and I am, thankfully, not in that situation myself - although it may happens one day. Who knows?).

I can't see how a family member could veto the decision, it would sort of go against the whole process, probably the ultimate decision when it comes to personal autonomy. And the reality is that it would be bad for business. I'm sort of split on the subject, but if the person is of sound mind and there are the correct medical professionals involved in order to help make the best decision for the individual, then so be it. It is a personal choice, but it's also difficult for family members who hold onto hope and who might want that person to be about in whatever guise. And that isn't selfish, they probably understand the severity of the situation but accepting a decision like this would stir all kinds of emotions. Very difficult.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Assisted dying

After what I’ve just gone through watching my mother slowly die for the last month, I would say it would be a good idea to be able to end any suffering sooner. It was horrendous….

Yep it's grim

Take care

[JamesWales]

Re: Assisted dying

I understand your comment about having the permission of family members but as we are adults, I don't agree. I would not want anyone in my family overriding my decision on sentimental grounds and when they are not living a life of pain and disability that I may have - and denying me autonomy in such matters. We may not even have much contact with our closest relatives and/or we may have little in common with the way they think or live their own lives.

(The above is a scenario purely for discussion and I am, thankfully, not in that situation myself - although it may happens one day. Who knows?).

You are right TBG, and I agree with you. "Sign off" isn't the right word, and I certainly don't think all family members should. I just think it is a process that ideally should be done in conjunction with family members so they understand and ultimately hopefully support the process too.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Assisted dying

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68954101

I would be grateful if the religious contributors don't pile in with their views on this one as we have enough religious arguments on the message board already.

Writing as one of the "religious contributors" on this MB, you might be surprised by my take on this subject.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Assisted dying

Writing as one of the "religious contributors" on this MB, you might be surprised by my take on this subject.

Pray tell, old fruit.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Assisted dying

Pray tell, old fruit.

Well, firstly I am a fully paid up member of Dignity in Dying and have been for some time before it became very popular following the entrance of Esther Rantzen into the debate.

Much is made of palliative care for the dying and this can be very good. However it is a post code lottery situation and not everyone has access to it. Also it is almost unbelievable that this sector relies heavily on charity to carry out its work. Even when it is available, not everyone has good pain control and can suffer greatly towards the end of life.

IMO it is very easy for some people to take an "ivory tower" or moral highground approach to this subject. It is very different if you have a loved one who is terminally ill and is howling in pain and is begging you to end his/her life.

Moreover, and this is obviously highly controversial, I think assisted dying should be extended to include those who are suffering from a long term degenerative condition such as MS, MND or Parkinsons and have no wish to continue to live, or should I say rather just exist, under such conditions. I stress that this in no way should be taken to mean I am suggesting the euthanasia of that person - the person concerned must be compos mentis and should be able to record their wishes both in writing and orally.

I have relatively recently come to this conclusion as a result of regularly visiting a friend who is suffering from Parkinsons and has done for over 3 years. It is very degrading for him (I won't go into details about bodily functions etc.) and so far he is fully aware of his condition and has frequently said to me that he doesn't want to "go on". It is taking a terrible toll on his wife who is racked with guilt because she is no longer able to take care of him at home and he is in a nursing home surrounded by folk who are mostly ga-ga. It is a mere existence, not a life.

I have some Christian friends that are horrified by my stance and others who agree with me. There is nothing in the Bible about assisted dying, so if ever I had to make that choice for myself I would do it, and throw myself at the mercy of God. Dignity in Dying produce a template which can be used to record your instructions and I am in the process of reading through the info before writing down my own wishes.

I think it is important to discuss this matter with close family in advance so they know where you are coming from. In my case I am a pretty healthy 77 year old at the moment but I am only too aware that I am at the age where anything could happen at any time. In my experience 80 seems to be a turning point for many people, when the quality of life starts to take a sharp downturn.

[jon1959]

Re: Assisted dying

Well, firstly I am a fully paid up member of Dignity in Dying and have been for some time before it became very popular following the entrance of Esther Rantzen into the debate.

Much is made of palliative care for the dying and this can be very good. However it is a post code lottery situation and not everyone has access to it. Also it is almost unbelievable that this sector relies heavily on charity to carry out its work. Even when it is available, not everyone has good pain control and can suffer greatly towards the end of life.

IMO it is very easy for some people to take an "ivory tower" or moral highground approach to this subject. It is very different if you have a loved one who is terminally ill and is howling in pain and is begging you to end his/her life.

Moreover, and this is obviously highly controversial, I think assisted dying should be extended to include those who are suffering from a long term degenerative condition such as MS, MND or Parkinsons and have no wish to continue to live, or should I say rather just exist, under such conditions. I stress that this in no way should be taken to mean I am suggesting the euthanasia of that person - the person concerned must be compos mentis and should be able to record their wishes both in writing and orally.

I have relatively recently come to this conclusion as a result of regularly visiting a friend who is suffering from Parkinsons and has done for over 3 years. It is very degrading for him (I won't go into details about bodily functions etc.) and so far he is fully aware of his condition and has frequently said to me that he doesn't want to "go on". It is taking a terrible toll on his wife who is racked with guilt because she is no longer able to take care of him at home and he is in a nursing home surrounded by folk who are mostly ga-ga. It is a mere existence, not a life.

I have some Christian friends that are horrified by my stance and others who agree with me. There is nothing in the Bible about assisted dying, so if ever I had to make that choice for myself I would do it, and throw myself at the mercy of God. Dignity in Dying produce a template which can be used to record your instructions and I am in the process of reading through the info before writing down my own wishes.

I think it is important to discuss this matter with close family in advance so they know where you are coming from. In my case I am a pretty healthy 77 year old at the moment but I am only too aware that I am at the age where anything could happen at any time. In my experience 80 seems to be a turning point for many people, when the quality of life starts to take a sharp downturn.

Good post. Very well argued.