1.5 million people

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: 1.5 million people

That's the increase in net migration to the UK in the last two years. 685,000 last year and 764,000 the year before.

That's nearly 50% bigger than Birmingham, a city with 500 odd schools, hundreds of doctors surgeries, dozens of miles of motorway, thousands of hospital beds, 500,000 homes etc etc

That, +50% is what's needed every two years just to keep up with the level of services we have been used to.

It's absolute madness. Irrespective of who is in power, does anyone think it can carry on?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce99y7l741po

Once again, another numpty who hasn't a clue about immigration figures. Do you think these are all people who come here on boats?

Almost half a million of those immigrants were students. Over 100k came from Ukraine. It's also worth considering that our universities are overall dependent on foreign students.

Sadly, lots look at immigration figures like these and presume they're mainly asylum seekers or illegal immigrants. In fact, the numbers claiming asylum are relatively low. The UK has also granted a lot of work visas to non-EU citizens.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 1.5 million people

Once again, another numpty who hasn't a clue about immigration figures. Do you think these are all people who come here on boats?

Almost half a million of those immigrants were students. Over 100k came from Ukraine. It's also worth considering that our universities are overall dependent on foreign students.

Sadly, lots look at immigration figures like these and presume they're mainly asylum seekers or illegal immigrants. In fact, the numbers claiming asylum are relatively low. The UK has also granted a lot of work visas to non-EU citizens.

Let's call the latest figures 750 k

600k include students , many of whom return ......and Ukrainian families ......many of whom return

So we have illegal immigrants , asylum seekers and usual migration , a figure of 150 k

It seems having a sensible immigration policy regarding the above and cracking down on illegal immigrants is perfectly achievable

Brexit was sold to many to sort this out

That's worked well

So now they want to vote reform

[JamesWales]

Re: 1.5 million people

Once again, another numpty who hasn't a clue about immigration figures. Do you think these are all people who come here on boats?

Almost half a million of those immigrants were students. Over 100k came from Ukraine. It's also worth considering that our universities are overall dependent on foreign students.

Sadly, lots look at immigration figures like these and presume they're mainly asylum seekers or illegal immigrants. In fact, the numbers claiming asylum are relatively low. The UK has also granted a lot of work visas to non-EU citizens.

You are alright jack, aren't you?!

Where did I mention boats? Do students and Ukrainians not use public services?

These are absolute unprecedent figures. Last two years are three times the previous norms, which are themselves about five times the norm when most of us were growing up.

Take some responsibility ffs.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: 1.5 million people

You are alright jack, aren't you?!

Where did I mention boats? Do students and Ukrainians not use public services?

These are absolute unprecedent figures. Last two years are three times the previous norms, which are themselves about five times the norm when most of us were growing up.

Take some responsibility ffs.

So I take it you wish to drastically cut the number of foreign students coming into the UK?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: 1.5 million people

Let's call the latest figures 750 k

600k include students , many of whom return ......and Ukrainian families ......many of whom return

So we have illegal immigrants , asylum seekers and usual migration , a figure of 150 k

It seems having a sensible immigration policy regarding the above and cracking down on illegal immigrants is perfectly achievable

Brexit was sold to many to sort this out

That's worked well

So now they want to vote reform

Absolutely spot on.

Immigration is the argument that the political right keep spewing out to try and gain support. As you say, Brexit was about taking control of our borders, though we already had that control anyway. Since then there has been endless talk about "stopping the boats" and sorting out immigration. The point is that most immigration cannot be sorted out. Universities rely on foreign students. Plaid Cymru have asked the Welsh Government for Wales to be a special case and to allow foreign students into Welsh universities in the event of foreign student numbers being cut.

The Tories have had 14 years and Brexit to sort out immigration. It's not as easy as some people think. They just see figures and have no idea of what is really going on. I've almost got fed up of discussing immigration with those who don't know what they're talking about and have no interest in being educated.

[JamesWales]

Re: 1.5 million people

So I take it you wish to drastically cut the number of foreign students coming into the UK?

I would, yep.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: 1.5 million people

I would, yep.

Any reason, and I presume you'd be happy with the problems that would cause our universities?

[JamesWales]

Re: 1.5 million people

Absolutely spot on.

Immigration is the argument that the political right keep spewing out to try and gain support. As you say, Brexit was about taking control of our borders, though we already had that control anyway. Since then there has been endless talk about "stopping the boats" and sorting out immigration. The point is that most immigration cannot be sorted out. Universities rely on foreign students. Plaid Cymru have asked the Welsh Government for Wales to be a special case and to allow foreign students into Welsh universities in the event of foreign student numbers being cut.

The Tories have had 14 years and Brexit to sort out immigration. It's not as easy as some people think. They just see figures and have no idea of what is really going on. I've almost got fed up of discussing immigration with those who don't know what they're talking about and have no interest in being educated.

People think it's too high because it makes improving our collective quality of life very very difficult when it's that level.

Of course the Tories bear responsibility for this.

Not sure how you think you are educating people on this. Saying that a large part of immigration is students isn't the killer take you think it is.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: 1.5 million people

People think it's too high because it makes improving our collective quality of life very very difficult when it's that level.

Of course the Tories bear responsibility for this.

Not sure how you think you are educating people on this. Saying that a large part of immigration is students isn't the killer take you think it is.

There is no evidence that it makes improving our quality of life more difficult. That's just an opinion. I'm of the opinion that immigration can enhance our way of life. I was a mature student only a few years ago and am grateful to have had the opportunity to study alongside others from different countries, different ethnicities etc. Last year I took part in a concert with a group of refugees and it was a humbling and enriching experience. Of course we need a sensible approach to immigration, not one based on numbers and shut the borders to stop people coming in.

Most people who are against immigration have no idea who is coming into the country in what number and why. Most people I encounter, when you discuss immigration, basically want an end to "illegals". That's the depth of their knowledge and they won't be shifted.

[JamesWales]

Re: 1.5 million people

There is no evidence that it makes improving our quality of life more difficult. That's just an opinion. I'm of the opinion that immigration can enhance our way of life. I was a mature student only a few years ago and am grateful to have had the opportunity to study alongside others from different countries, different ethnicities etc. Last year I took part in a concert with a group of refugees and it was a humbling and enriching experience. Of course we need a sensible approach to immigration, not one based on numbers and shut the borders to stop people coming in.

Most people who are against immigration have no idea who is coming into the country in what number and why. Most people I encounter, when you discuss immigration, basically want an end to "illegals". That's the depth of their knowledge and they won't be shifted.

Of course all those things can be true but there is a limit at which it seriously impacts upon services, house prices and the like. The link between wages and house prices completely breaks when inflation soared in the early 2000s.

I'm glad you enjoyed the concert with refugees (who aren't typical immigrants of course) but I'll guarantee you did it from a position of being a homeowner and relatively sheltered from some of the more negative impacts of such high numbers.

It's unsustainable. We can't keep up. You can't fund, plan and build the services needed to keep up with that level of increase in population. That's a reality irrespective of the govt.

A lot of people placing faith in Labour may well be in for a rude awakening I'm afraid.

[JamesWales]

Re: 1.5 million people

Of course all those things can be true but there is a limit at which it seriously impacts upon services, house prices and the like. The link between wages and house prices completely breaks when inflation soared in the early 2000s.

I'm glad you enjoyed the concert with refugees (who aren't typical immigrants of course) but I'll guarantee you did it from a position of being a homeowner and relatively sheltered from some of the more negative impacts of such high numbers.

It's unsustainable. We can't keep up. You can't fund, plan and build the services needed to keep up with that level of increase in population. That's a reality irrespective of the govt.

A lot of people placing faith in Labour may well be in for a rude awakening I'm afraid.

*When immigration soared* not inflation.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 1.5 million people

You are alright jack, aren't you?!

Where did I mention boats? Do students and Ukrainians not use public services?

These are absolute unprecedent figures. Last two years are three times the previous norms, which are themselves about five times the norm when most of us were growing up.

ATake some responsibility ffs.

You need to direct that to your conservative government

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: 1.5 million people

*When immigration soared* not inflation.

Why are labour in government going to give those who vote Labour a rude awakening when it comes to immigration ?

Who has screwed things up for 14 years ?

[stevo]

Re: 1.5 million people

So I take it you wish to drastically cut the number of foreign students coming into the UK?

I would, yep.

Any reason, and I presume you'd be happy with the problems that would cause our universities?

As someone who works for a university, I'm very keen to hear an answer to that question.

[JamesWales]

Re: 1.5 million people

As someone who works for a university, I'm very keen to hear an answer to that question.

Fundamentally I think universities have lost their raison d'etre, which is to educate, inform, inspire etc the future generations of this country, primarily. I think with hindsight it was a mistake changing poytechnics to universities, as they provided vital skills to primarily local people and helped with upskilling people for jobs etc. It's no great surprise that a decade or two after they closed we suddenly don't have the skills in many typically working class industries and have to rely on others.

For our traditional universities, I think they have grown too large, become too dominant in local cities, creating significant distortion in housing markets, whilst financially becoming dependent on foreign students (understandably given the fees) which is a pretty unsustainable model in the long term, which I think is happening now.

So yeah, id rather see the purpose of universities change, and whilst I don't wish any to close, I think it's likely as the model is unsustainable