Bring back National Service...

[The Bloop]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Kids have just spent 13+ years in compulsory education, preparing them for the a working life. Many do voluntary work in 6th form, or join a cadet force if they're interested in the military. What's to be gained by delaying kids joining the big wide world?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Bring back National Service...

It's bollocks

It's about desperately trying to cling on to the right wing vote

Immigrants , benefits , lazy youngsters

Maybe they can get Argentina to invade the Falklands again

That certainly saved thatchers arse

[pipster]

Re: Bring back National Service...

It's bollocks

It's about desperately trying to cling on to the right wing vote

Immigrants , benefits , lazy youngsters

Maybe they can get Argentina to invade the Falklands again

That certainly saved thatchers arse

Sludge - its bollox, the election is over, you mention Argentina - Im sure Sir Keir will find his 'Iraq'. As for your alter ego Dorcus - my son will be doing A levels in comp sec, it's a module on the course, as is red teaming (look it up).

That policy is to get the red trouser brigade out and vote - great idea - wont affect the result

Dorcus - already spoke to my son about it - thanks, we are of the same opinion, yeah he would do service. But Im sure as you know - these days cyber is where it's at, cozy bear is the go to of choice in terms of technique (go look him up as well)
sleep well

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Sludge - its bollox, the election is over, you mention Argentina - Im sure Sir Keir will find his 'Iraq'. As for your alter ego Dorcus - my son will be doing A levels in comp sec, it's a module on the course, as is red teaming (look it up).

That policy is to get the red trouser brigade out and vote - great idea - wont affect the result

Dorcus - already spoke to my son about it - thanks, we are of the same opinion, yeah he would do service. But Im sure as you know - these days cyber is where it's at, cozy bear is the go to of choice in terms of technique (go look him up as well)
sleep well

Think you mean Doucas.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Good to see that they are all on message on this well planned initiative.

From today's Guardian

The pledge was launched just two days after the defence minister Andrew Murrison said that the government had no plans for national service in “any form” because it would do more harm than good.

In an answer to a written parliamentary question, Murrison said placing “potentially unwilling” recruits with professional soldiers “could damage morale, recruitment and retention and would consume professional military and naval resources”.

He added that if, on the other hand, temporary recruits were kept separate “it would be difficult to find a proper and meaningful role for them, potentially harming motivation and discipline”.

[JamesWales]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Usual dismissive comments here.

I don't see what is so wrong with it? It is common in many countries and could be a great way to provide training and meaning for many young people who in my experience are struggling in many cases with feeling valued, part of a community, and might welcome the opportunity to upskill etc

Many here would turn their nose up at the Duke of Edinburgh awards no doubt (posh royalists patronising working class kids blah blah blah).

It's an election gimmick, for sure, most of what both parties are saying at the moment is, but it's not a bad idea in principle at all.

The irony is, I bet a lot of the people moaning would gladly see the benefit of training and experience for their own kids, they just don't seem to want it for others?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Usual dismissive comments here.

I don't see what is so wrong with it? It is common in many countries and could be a great way to provide training and meaning for many young people who in my experience are struggling in many cases with feeling valued, part of a community, and might welcome the opportunity to upskill etc

Many here would turn their nose up at the Duke of Edinburgh awards no doubt (posh royalists patronising working class kids blah blah blah).

It's an election gimmick, for sure, most of what both parties are saying at the moment is, but it's not a bad idea in principle at all.

The irony is, I bet a lot of the people moaning would gladly see the benefit of training and experience for their own kids, they just don't seem to want it for others?

The broader point for me is that what we seem to be seeing so far is Sunak surrounding himself with an inner circle of advisors because he may distrust a wider spectrum of opinion and challenge (and potential leaking) within the wider party.

So we get rabbits coming out of hats that are wrong footing a broader section of the party. It happened with the announcement of the election date and now this. I can't give an alternative explanation for a Defence Minister dissing National Service so starkly in a Parliamentary answer a few days before a "flagship" policy proposing the same is revealed to the world.

Manifesto commitments for all parties will come under unyielding scrutiny from the opposition and the media in the coming weeks. If the National Service policy, which may or may not be a good idea suffers because of the way it was constructed and the speed with which it was brought forward due to an accelerated election timetable then Sunak will only have himself and the inner circle to blame.

[stevo]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Usual dismissive comments here.

Do you disagree with the Tories over anything?

[JamesWales]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Do you disagree with the Tories over anything?

Loads. But not really on this. And I am certainly open minded to hearing more about it

[JamesWales]

Re: Bring back National Service...

The broader point for me is that what we seem to be seeing so far is Sunak surrounding himself with an inner circle of advisors because he may distrust a wider spectrum of opinion and challenge (and potential leaking) within the wider party.

So we get rabbits coming out of hats that are wrong footing a broader section of the party. It happened with the announcement of the election date and now this. I can't give an alternative explanation for a Defence Minister dissing National Service so starkly in a Parliamentary answer a few days before a "flagship" policy proposing the same is revealed to the world.

Manifesto commitments for all parties will come under unyielding scrutiny from the opposition and the media in the coming weeks. If the National Service policy, which may or may not be a good idea suffers because of the way it was constructed and the speed with which it was brought forward due to an accelerated election timetable then Sunak will only have himself and the inner circle to blame.

Don't disagree. But you've chosen to focus on the messaging there, and I would agree that it's all a bit chaotic across the board - again, on all sides - as they are all getting caught out and contradicting eachother.

I'm instead focusing on being fairly open minded on it, recognising that I think it would provide a great opportunity for many younger people and perhaps help to bring society together a little.

I think anything said in an election is typically Ill thought out and chaotic, but I do think in principle, depending how it was implemented, it's a good thing.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Don't disagree. But you've chosen to focus on the messaging there, and I would agree that it's all a bit chaotic across the board - again, on all sides - as they are all getting caught out and contradicting eachother.

I'm instead focusing on being fairly open minded on it, recognising that I think it would provide a great opportunity for many younger people and perhaps help to bring society together a little.

I think anything said in an election is typically I'll thought out and chaotic, but I do think in principle, depending how it was implemented, it's a good thing.

I did focus on the messaging....well spotted!

I am also interested in the funding. 60% of the £2.5 billion a year supposedly to come from the Levelling Up fund, which I thought previously you were a major advocate of. I guess that was then this is now.

Given the polls this is unlikely to get off the ground but if it did wouldn't it result in a 1 year hiatus of people previously going directly into the jobs market being diverted to worthy causes?

[JamesWales]

Re: Bring back National Service...

I did focus on the messaging....well spotted!

I am also interested in the funding. 60% of the £2.5 billion a year supposedly to come from the Levelling Up fund, which I thought previously you were a major advocate of. I guess that was then this is now.

Given the polls this is unlikely to get off the ground but if it did wouldn't it result in a 1 year hiatus of people previously going directly into the jobs market being diverted to worthy causes?

I am a big advocate of levelling up!

Re. Funding, I'd say that's another question that is a whole level of scrutiny we can apply to any policy mentioned. It's incredibly rare that there is a clear and undisputable funding source for any policy.

My general point is that the idea shouldn't be dismissed. I think it could be a great thing for young people.

Rest assured, this stuff happens. Schools now do fantastic trips to Africa and the like (and many other things!), building housing and forging cultural links. The problem is they are only open to the wealthy. I see no issue with opening up and formalising lots of training and community service for all young people. I think many would greatly benefit.

[lardy]

Re: Bring back National Service...

I am a big advocate of levelling up!

Re. Funding, I'd say that's another question that is a whole level of scrutiny we can apply to any policy mentioned. It's incredibly rare that there is a clear and undisputable funding source for any policy.

My general point is that the idea shouldn't be dismissed. I think it could be a great thing for young people.

Rest assured, this stuff happens. Schools now do fantastic trips to Africa and the like (and many other things!), building housing and forging cultural links. The problem is they are only open to the wealthy. I see no issue with opening up and formalising lots of training and community service for all young people. I think many would greatly benefit.

Let's see if the Tories announce that they're planning to send our young men off to Africa to build houses and forge cultural links...

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Don't disagree. But you've chosen to focus on the messaging there, and I would agree that it's all a bit chaotic across the board - again, on all sides - as they are all getting caught out and contradicting eachother.

I'm instead focusing on being fairly open minded on it, recognising that I think it would provide a great opportunity for many younger people and perhaps help to bring society together a little.

I think anything said in an election is typically Ill thought out and chaotic, but I do think in principle, depending how it was implemented, it's a good thing.

If it's such a great opportunity to bring society together why isn't everyone expected to do it? Maybe mandatory national service wouldn't be such a vote winner if it directly affected people who get a vote?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Bring back National Service...

Let's see if the Tories announce that they're planning to send our young men off to Africa to build houses and forge cultural links...

Given their track record in sending people to Africa under half-baked schemes I wouldn't hold your breath!