Assisted dying

[Taunton Blue Genie]

My brother died last week after the most horrendous descent into mental and physical decline.
Although we had our differences we thought similarly about many things e.g. religion: nil, afterlife: zero, what happens to our physical body: unimportant, funeral: no, thanks.
His decline meant that he wore a nappy at the end of his life, he spent his ever-decreasing conscious periods seeing visions of animals, he was convinced that the was elsehwere in the country and believing that he had been kidnapped for his organs to be harvested etc. He could hardly swallow and couldn't really speak at the end and was fed by a tube.
Neither he nor I would prefer such an existence to having a way out of that condition.
Although there must be safeguards against assisted dying, it's a strange situation whereby it's so damned difficult to legally escape from such an horrendous situation.

[JamesWales]

Re: Assisted dying

First and foremost TBG I am very sorry to hear this and may he rest in best. Secondly though, it is hard not to say that I am glad that you - and he - are now at peace. It seems cruel to prolong life when there is no joy in it.

We will all have our own experiences that don't necessarily need going into. I have family members very close to me with degenerative disease and our opinions are framed by that. Like things like abortion these are deeply personal moral issues. For me though, I think it's something that comes with the benefits of extended life expectancy that we can end it under our own conditions more easily.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Assisted dying

My brother died last week after the most horrendous descent into mental and physical decline.
Although we had our differences we thought similarly about many things e.g. religion: nil, afterlife: zero, what happens to our physical body: unimportant, funeral: no, thanks.
His decline meant that he wore a nappy at the end of his life, he spent his ever-decreasing conscious periods seeing visions of animals, he was convinced that the was elsehwere in the country and believing that he had been kidnapped for his organs to be harvested etc. He could hardly swallow and couldn't really speak at the end and was fed by a tube.
Neither he nor I would prefer such an existence to having a way out of that condition.
Although there must be safeguards against assisted dying, it's a strange situation whereby it's so damned difficult to legally escape from such an horrendous situation.

My condolences to you and your family TBG - the older I’ve got, the more I’ve come around to your way of thinking.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Assisted dying

My condolences to you and your family TBG - the older I’ve got, the more I’ve come around to your way of thinking.

I don't have progeny to visit me while I possibly decline into a state that is akin to being a dribbling baby sitting in one's own soiled nappy and having to be fed whilst not being able to convey the simplest thought - and I'll see if there's anything I can set aside for such a scenario in order to slip away unaided.

[JamesWales]

Re: Assisted dying

I don't have progeny to visit me while I possibly decline into a state that is akin to being a dribbling baby sitting in one's own soiled nappy and having to be fed whilst not being able to convey the simplest thought - and I'll see if there's anything I can set aside for such a scenario in order to slip away unaided.

There has to be a better way doesn't there?

I applaud Kim Leadbeater (Jo Cox's sister of course) for bringing the debate through parliament.

The difference with the past is that we have the ability to keep people living way beyond the point where previously they would have passed away. In the overwhelming majority of cases this is very good thing, but where it means people's lives ar extended for years on end living in misery and pain, often at great expense, I think it is right there is a route out.

It's complicated. I assume that the individual, their partner and any children would all need to agree as well as at least two doctors, but I think it's right that people have this control over how their life ends.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Assisted dying

There has to be a better way doesn't there?

I applaud Kim Leadbeater (Jo Cox's sister of course) for bringing the debate through parliament.

The difference with the past is that we have the ability to keep people living way beyond the point where previously they would have passed away. In the overwhelming majority of cases this is very good thing, but where it means people's lives ar extended for years on end living in misery and pain, often at great expense, I think it is right there is a route out.

It's complicated. I assume that the individual, their partner and any children would all need to agree as well as at least two doctors, but I think it's right that people have this control over how their life ends.

I disagree that anyone other than the individual concerned be part of the process. It shouldn't be a matter of a unanimous vote from other people.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Assisted dying

I disagree that anyone other than the individual concerned be part of the process. It shouldn't be a matter of a unanimous vote from other people.

I didn't mean to exclude any medical people or legal representatives, of course.

[JamesWales]

Re: Assisted dying

I disagree that anyone other than the individual concerned be part of the process. It shouldn't be a matter of a unanimous vote from other people.

Yes I think ultimately I do agree on that. I guess its more an ideal case (not withstanding the fact that the entire topic is hardly ideal) and to avoid legal challenges, disputes and the like.

But yeah if there is no consensus I do think ultimately it is the person's own decision

[goats]

Re: Assisted dying

I don't have progeny to visit me while I possibly decline into a state that is akin to being a dribbling baby sitting in one's own soiled nappy and having to be fed whilst not being able to convey the simplest thought - and I'll see if there's anything I can set aside for such a scenario in order to slip away unaided.

Recently had to watch my mum go in that state, slowly for weeks on end. It was t nice for anyone involved, takes its toll on the nurses too watching the decline over a few months. There needs to be a way to end this sufferation

[TWGL1]

Re: Assisted dying

My brother died last week after the most horrendous descent into mental and physical decline.
Although we had our differences we thought similarly about many things e.g. religion: nil, afterlife: zero, what happens to our physical body: unimportant, funeral: no, thanks.
His decline meant that he wore a nappy at the end of his life, he spent his ever-decreasing conscious periods seeing visions of animals, he was convinced that the was elsehwere in the country and believing that he had been kidnapped for his organs to be harvested etc. He could hardly swallow and couldn't really speak at the end and was fed by a tube.
Neither he nor I would prefer such an existence to having a way out of that condition.
Although there must be safeguards against assisted dying, it's a strange situation whereby it's so damned difficult to legally escape from such an horrendous situation.

Sincere condolences

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Assisted dying

Exclude the religious lot from any part in the process

Completely

Tonight on the news there was this vicar who previously had argued against any assisted dying .....due to her belief in ghosts etc .....and hence played a part in denying others a peaceful end

A few years ago her mum suffered a terrible end .....the result? Well, vicar lady is now 100 percent in favour of assisted dying

Ff sake

So here we have the perfect example of religion sticking its nose in and people using it to make or try to make decisions on behalf of others 🤔

No chance , the person who wants out plus the medical team ....that's it

None of this religious ethics crap hanging around together with every Tom , Dick and Harry

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Assisted dying

My brother died last week after the most horrendous descent into mental and physical decline.
Although we had our differences we thought similarly about many things e.g. religion: nil, afterlife: zero, what happens to our physical body: unimportant, funeral: no, thanks.
His decline meant that he wore a nappy at the end of his life, he spent his ever-decreasing conscious periods seeing visions of animals, he was convinced that the was elsehwere in the country and believing that he had been kidnapped for his organs to be harvested etc. He could hardly swallow and couldn't really speak at the end and was fed by a tube.
Neither he nor I would prefer such an existence to having a way out of that condition.
Although there must be safeguards against assisted dying, it's a strange situation whereby it's so damned difficult to legally escape from such an horrendous situation.

Genuinely sorry to read your post TBG. Regardless of our different views on Christianity I can empathise with you regarding your brother's demise. It seems to me that most opponents of Assisted Dying have no direct experience such as you have had, but those who have had, tend to support it. It is easy to take an “ivory towers” viewpoint I think!

I have a friend who has advanced Parkinsons. He has been in a nursing home for two years, unable to walk now, can just about feed himself with semi-solid food, has difficulty speaking, is incontinent (at least as far as number 1's go I think) but is still 100% rational and aware of his situation. To use your word, it is an "existence", not a life. He says he is ready to “go” but of course the staff have a duty to keep him alive at all costs. He will be 88 in a few days time and I suspect once he has reached that milestone he will refuse food/drink and quietly slip away. An elderly neighbour of ours did a similar thing about a year ago – it is the only legal option as things stand.

It may surprise you to know that although I am a committed Christian I am in favour of assisted dying for myself should the time/circumstances arise (such as my friend's) but I would never impose my wishes on anyone else - it is matter of conscience for each individual how their life could end but assisted dying should be an option. There is nothing in the Bible about suicide – I would have to throw myself at the mercy of God when I come to judgement and trust that he understood my situation. Opponents say people will feel obligated to die because they think are a burden to others. I know for sure if I were in my friend's situation I would feel a burden to others particularly to my nearest and dearest, whereas they are probably many others who would feel no such thing – so be it.

I have already written to my previous M.P. a while back but he said he would not support the bill. I have written to my new M.P. but he has not replied as yet. I would urge everyone to write to their M.P. expressing your point of view (either way) so that they can get a fair picture of the general feeling of the population.

I would be interested to read the opinions of others on this very sensitive subject.

[jon1959]

Re: Assisted dying

My sympathies on this are with TBG, Gofer and Sludge (a dream team!)

I understand the concerns about abuse and exploitation, but the default should be for the person facing end of life to decide.

There should be a role for doctors, lawyers and family - but no final decision and no veto.

[JamesWales]

Re: Assisted dying

I may have missed it, and obviously the whole point of the paliamentary debate is to start going through these things, but there's no real suggestion that any kind of religious person or institution would need to sign it off is there? I can see why some people may want their blessing to ensure the gates to the big Bob bank in the sky are unlocked, but I can't imagine any kind of sign off process?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Assisted dying

I may have missed it, and obviously the whole point of the paliamentary debate is to start going through these things, but there's no real suggestion that any kind of religious person or institution would need to sign it off is there? I can see why some people may want their blessing to ensure the gates to the big Bob bank in the sky are unlocked, but I can't imagine any kind of sign off process?

They are always floating around the edges

The top priest in England was on the news yesterday being interviewed about it

Quite why I don't know , completely irrelevant , may as well ask a bloke working down the council bus depot