Immigration levels

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Immigration levels

I’m out of line with modern thinking on immigration I think because I don’t have a problem with mass immigration if it means that jobs the residents in the country won’t do get done. I’m not having a go at UK residents who will not take on some jobs there because I’ve been guilty of it myself.

I can remember going to somewhere close to Ross on Wye as a teenager to spend a day picking strawberries - I seem to remember it was on the day England played Brazil in the 1970 World Cup when Gordon Banks made “the save of the century, so we worked for less than a full day because we wanted to get home for the bfootball. I would have been fourteen with a body that I would have thought would have been able to cope with picking strawberries and other fruit for six hours, but I was wrong because I spent the following day recovering from it and decided then that doing such work once was enough for me.

So, if it takes 900,000 from abroad to get onerous physical jobs or low paid construction and care jobs done, then I’ve no problem with it. As for illegal immigrants coming over the channel in “small boats”, I’m for any humane method which reduces and, hopefully, eventually ends this shoddy practice which only benefits those who rake the money in.

Invest in machinery to do it not low paid immigrants.

[Rjk]

Re: Immigration levels

GDP per capita hasn't increased in the last three years and is still lower than it was before COVID.

A rapidly increasing population in a country with a stagnant economy is not a happy mix.

That's slightly disingenuous.

The reason successive governments have pursued immigration is to try to grow GDP.
We have an ageing population - and it is probably already declining without the effects of immigration.
We've been importing Labour for a long time to keep the economy running to pay for the huge proportion of pensioners amongst the native population.

If we suddenly decided to limit immigration then the economy would become a lot worse - in the short term at least.

I personally welcome immigration, I think it makes this country a more vibrant and interesting place - I am married to an immigrant.

However, there are alternative approaches to the economy that don't require immigration that are equally valid.

Japan for instance has kept immigration very low. Culturally they've remained much more isolated than we have, and their population has been declining for some time. Their GDP is lower than it was in the mid 90s.
That transition hasn't come without its problems, but there are also some benefits as well.

House prices, or indeed land values for businesses have barely changed in 20 years - this means you get a lot of bespoke individual businesses, almost running as a hobby because land values are low and not always increasing they don't need to make a huge profit.

We could absolutely adopt the same approach - it would take a couple of decades of pain which no political party is going to want to adopt. It would probably mean us taking a more reserved role on the international stage - leave our businesses vulnerable to being bought out from overseas and businesses here wold have to adapt to the managed reduction of the country.

There is a limit to how much we can throw onto the altar of permanent GDP growth though, so we may have to face these decisions at some point - I can't see any of the powers that be wanting to address it anytime soon though.

[JamesWales]

Re: Immigration levels

I think from a cultural perspective it's very easy to talk about the benefits of diversity and viewing the world as one place, one people etc. Likewise, economically the benefits of a laissez faire approach to immigration are well established. In terms of the goodness of most people, that shouldn't be disputed. There is good and bad in all, unquestionably.

In practice, I do think it is about numbers though, which is why it's important to compare to the world in which most of us grew up (the 90s in my case), which was just wholly different to what we experience now.

At net 900,000, net 700,000, even net 350,000 and the like it is pretty much physically impossible to provide the services needed for people in time and without a significant impact on the average quality of life insofar as things like the amount of schools per 1000, parkland per 1000, train stations per 1000 people
or affordability of housing etc goes, and I think that does matter. At these levels, I just think improving the quality of our social services is essentially impossible. 900,000 is a city like Birmingham, you need about 500,000 homes, 60 train stations, 300 schools, hundreds of serguries, dozens of large parks etc just to tread water. It cannot be funded, planned and built in time. That's leaving aside any integration or cultural issues which people will inevitably have

I think numbers will have to dramatically fall from what we've seen in the last few years tbh. I just can't see how a government can deliver otherwise. We have to find another way, and I sense there is growing consensus on that, inside the UK but also across the western world really.

[az city]

Re: Immigration levels

GDP per capita hasn't increased in the last three years and is still lower than it was before COVID.

A rapidly increasing population in a country with a stagnant economy is not a happy mix.

As I said, the main source of GDP growth is immigration. It's not inconsistent with stagnant GDP per capita.

[JamesWales]

Re: Immigration levels

Seems sensible to post that the latest annual figures see a drop to 431,000.

Lower than the last couple of years, but far higher than any number pre 2020.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgx3ekkw1eo

[Rjk]

Re: Immigration levels

Seems sensible to post that the latest annual figures see a drop to 431,000.

Lower than the last couple of years, but far higher than any number pre 2020.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgx3ekkw1eo

Yes it has halved since a year previously, although that will be a result of Tory as well as Labour policies given the time frame - I'm sure that won't stop Labour making some political capital from it though.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Immigration levels

Seems sensible to post that the latest annual figures see a drop to 431,000.

Lower than the last couple of years, but far higher than any number pre 2020.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgx3ekkw1eo

So if Labour from 1997 were blamed by the right for " letting in too many immigrants " until 2010 ......and apparently according to the right did this to get the " immigrants " to vote Labour.......

Then what were the Tories doing in charge of far higher net migration figures ?

The arguments regarding immigration are multi faceted but a lot of those that want the country to be tough on this matter just don't like foreigners

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Immigration levels

As a matter of interest, how many of those not born here are claiming unemployment benefits, and does it even matter? If it doesn't matter, what is an acceptable limit or should there be no limit?

[goats]

Re: Immigration levels

Announced today, that they have revised the figures for next migration up to906,000 people in 22-23. 728,000 in 23-24, so 1.6 million people in two years, all whilst we have complete control over it. (This isn't about illegal immigration).

Starmer accused the Tories of running an "open border experiment".

Worth noting that net immigration for decades was essentially zero and nearly always between -50,000 and +50,000 a year. Started rising under Blair and levelled out about 200,000 a year then rose to 300,000+ after the 2009 financial crisis, so 900,000, 700,000. These are all wholly unprecedented figures

Estimates entirety of the Windrush generation is 500,000 over 23 years..

We are building about 200,000 dwellings a year..


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3degx4029ko

Youve got to wonder, who the f would want to come here? We just take in unskilled ****wits running away from other countries it seems, whereas others take in educated people looking for decent jobs (like Oz for an ie). Another hotel crammed full of them….
This country is only going one way, losing billions every year, 2 million work shy anyway….socialism - living off someone else’s money.

[jon1959]

Re: Immigration levels

Youve got to wonder, who the f would want to come here? We just take in unskilled ****wits running away from other countries it seems, whereas others take in educated people looking for decent jobs (like Oz for an ie). Another hotel crammed full of them….
This country is only going one way, losing billions every year, 2 million work shy anyway….socialism - living off someone else’s money.

Not bad as a rant, but just an empty rant!

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Immigration-Skilled-Worker-visas.pdf

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Immigration levels

Not bad as a rant, but just an empty rant!

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/up...rker-visas.pdf

You are wasting your time trying to provide facts to counter such babbling

[JamesWales]

Re: Immigration levels

Population increases by the second highest amount in 75 years. Up 700,000.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c207nzgrz3vo

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Immigration levels

Population increases by the second highest amount in 75 years. Up 700,000.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c207nzgrz3vo

June 23 to June 24

The conservatives and reform definitely cant blame that on Labour, even though they will , as they weren't in office

[Dorcus]

Re: Immigration levels

Population increases by the second highest amount in 75 years. Up 700,000.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c207nzgrz3vo

A glut of new births under Labour? That's got to be a good thing Shirley?

[goats]

Re: Immigration levels

Politicians have done a great job in getting the public to focus on just the small boat crossings, which account for about 7% of the total, rather than the policies which have allowed the net figure to get so out of control.

This country is going broke in the next few years, I’d be very careful what you do with any savings or investments. Labour borrowing last month billions over again, way more than 12 months ago….yet still they come for the handouts