Immigration levels

[JamesWales]

Re: Immigration levels

A glut of new births under Labour? That's got to be a good thing Shirley?

Almost! Data is for the period just before the last election, and births account for a tiny proportion of the figures..

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Immigration levels

This country is going broke in the next few years, I’d be very careful what you do with any savings or investments. Labour borrowing last month billions over again, way more than 12 months ago….yet still they come for the handouts

It's broke already.

[Dorcus]

Re: Immigration levels

It's broke already.

It's never been fixed

[JamesWales]

Re: Immigration levels

It's never been fixed

You are correct. And neither has any society. Things are far too complex for that and perfection is impossible. Even allowing for it being the period of my youth however, it's hard not to view things as having been better twenty years or so ago. We shouldnt view things as ever being fantastic. What decade didn't have its troubles? But there is an overwhelming air of hopelessness at the moment.

There seemed to be a sweet spot in the mid 90s to the financial crash, and we've never recovered from it. 2008/09 was the start of real shift.

Various technological changes, the way we consume news and socialize, every day stresses and huge social pressures have made things worse still in my opinion.

I do think we all need to factor in our minds natural rose tinted glow it puts on memories but I do feel worse about the country than I ever have before. Like, I genuinely feel a bit sorry for my kids, which is a truly awful feeling.

There is of course no single reason for this feeling, but I think it's common.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Immigration levels

You are correct. And neither has any society. Things are far too complex for that and perfection is impossible. Even allowing for it being the period of my youth however, it's hard not to view things as having been better twenty years or so ago. We shouldnt view things as ever being fantastic. What decade didn't have its troubles? But there is an overwhelming air of hopelessness at the moment.

There seemed to be a sweet spot in the mid 90s to the financial crash, and we've never recovered from it. 2008/09 was the start of real shift.

Various technological changes, the way we consume news and socialize, every day stresses and huge social pressures have made things worse still in my opinion.

I do think we all need to factor in our minds natural rose tinted glow it puts on memories but I do feel worse about the country than I ever have before. Like, I genuinely feel a bit sorry for my kids, which is a truly awful feeling.

There is of course no single reason for this feeling, but I think it's common.

You feel " a bit " sorry for your kids for the future

And thats an awful feeling ?

😆

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Immigration levels

Has anybody watched the sword/metal bar fight in Pill, Newport that has been doing the rounds today?
It’s mental to be fair.

It’s ironic as last night I watched a 2hr+ video of Benji from Dub War/Skindread taking Cullen around Pill and showing the good and the bad of the place.

Fast forward 12 hours and there are two groups of men fighting each other with weapons on a Friday afternoon.
I’ve heard it was Turks against a large group of Kurds.

The overwhelming take from the video that I watched from The Central Club is that most of the old heads from Pill, regardless of colour are pissed off at the new arrivals who want nothing to do with the community even though it would have been one of the earliest melting pots in the country.
It’s just a case of throwing hoards of people into a place that has been deprived for decades and letting them to their own devices.

My Mam was from Pill, my old man worked in a garage on Brunel Street right next to The Transporter Bridge from the late 70’s to the mid 80’s.
I had to spend time there when the teachers strikes were happening and I loved it.
It was ALWYAYS a bit cagey but that added to the aura.
Walking past the Front Line in the 90’s to get fishing tackle was an experience.
Going down there to do a pub crawl with the locals and ending up at a Blues Party was great fun but a proper eye opener.

Now, it is pretty much a no go zone after dark and there are gangs of Eastern Europeans and plenty of other places that just don’t want to fit in.

I mentioned on here before that I believe Civil Conflict will happen.
I’ve watched an episode or two with Dr David Betz (Professor of War Studies for the last 25 years at Kings College, London) on YouTube and his take is that we are already in the early stages of an inevitable Civil War/Conflict or whatever vernacular can be used to a big, big tinder box going up in flames.

Now, these interviews of his have mainly been on what many on here would call right wing (Andrew Gold’s Heretics and Triggernometry).
There is undoubtedly a part of the Right that would like nothing more than this to come to fruition, he has been accused of it himself…but he is quite clear that this is not the case and he is just sounding the warning bell.

He also mentions factional polarization between the left and the right, which we have all seen since 2016.
Very little middle ground if any ground concerned between the Modern Left and The Modern Right.

This Message board is a small microcosm of such behavior.
Look at any Message Board for any football team in the UK that allows any form of Political Chat and it is exactly the same.

We are heading into very, very murky waters and nobody it seems wants to stop it. Some are frothing at the mouth to get there and some can’t or choose not to see it as long as they can view and talk to their “opposition” with condescension.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Immigration levels

Has anybody watched the sword/metal bar fight in Pill, Newport that has been doing the rounds today?
ItÂ’s mental to be fair.

ItÂ’s ironic as last night I watched a 2hr+ video of Benji from Dub War/Skindread taking Cullen around Pill and showing the good and the bad of the place.

Fast forward 12 hours and there are two groups of men fighting each other with weapons on a Friday afternoon.
IÂ’ve heard it was Turks against a large group of Kurds.

The overwhelming take from the video that I watched from The Central Club is that most of the old heads from Pill, regardless of colour are pissed off at the new arrivals who want nothing to do with the community even though it would have been one of the earliest melting pots in the country.
ItÂ’s just a case of throwing hoards of people into a place that has been deprived for decades and letting them to their own devices.

My Mam was from Pill, my old man worked in a garage on Brunel Street right next to The Transporter Bridge from the late 70Â’s to the mid 80Â’s.
I had to spend time there when the teachers strikes were happening and I loved it.
It was ALWYAYS a bit cagey but that added to the aura.
Walking past the Front Line in the 90Â’s to get fishing tackle was an experience.
Going down there to do a pub crawl with the locals and ending up at a Blues Party was great fun but a proper eye opener.

Now, it is pretty much a no go zone after dark and there are gangs of Eastern Europeans and plenty of other places that just donÂ’t want to fit in.

I mentioned on here before that I believe Civil Conflict will happen.
IÂ’ve watched an episode or two with Dr David Betz (Professor of War Studies for the last 25 years at Kings College, London) on YouTube and his take is that we are already in the early stages of an inevitable Civil War/Conflict or whatever vernacular can be used to a big, big tinder box going up in flames.

Now, these interviews of his have mainly been on what many on here would call right wing (Andrew GoldÂ’s Heretics and Triggernometry).
There is undoubtedly a part of the Right that would like nothing more than this to come to fruition, he has been accused of it himselfÂ…but he is quite clear that this is not the case and he is just sounding the warning bell.

He also mentions factional polarization between the left and the right, which we have all seen since 2016.
Very little middle ground if any ground concerned between the Modern Left and The Modern Right.

This Message board is a small microcosm of such behavior.
Look at any Message Board for any football team in the UK that allows any form of Political Chat and it is exactly the same.

We are heading into very, very murky waters and nobody it seems wants to stop it. Some are frothing at the mouth to get there and some can’t or choose not to see it as long as they can view and talk to their “opposition” with condescension.

The world is what it is

I am certain that before Pill became what it was in the 1950s and Butetown likewise the " locals " were complaining about the newcomers .......who are now complaining about the eastern Europeans and Kurdish barbers

Do you think Pill in Newport is more lawless than say parts of Washington DC ? Like most American cities one based on waves of immigration ?

The answer is that there isn't really an answer and tighter controls on immigration , both legal and illegal together with resources put into tackling criminality.....from the existing community and newcomers .....requires political commitment and resources .......and that means money .....and people dont like parting with money

Theres always been conflict between different people , this country is no different to anywhere else

The key is trying to manage it as best as we can

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Immigration levels

The world is what it is

I am certain that before Pill became what it was in the 1950s and Butetown likewise the " locals " were complaining about the newcomers .......who are now complaining about the eastern Europeans and Kurdish barbers

Do you think Pill in Newport is more lawless than say parts of Washington DC ? Like most American cities one based on waves of immigration ?

The answer is that there isn't really an answer and tighter controls on immigration , both legal and illegal together with resources put into tackling criminality.....from the existing community and newcomers .....requires political commitment and resources .......and that means money .....and people dont like parting with money

Theres always been conflict between different people , this country is no different to anywhere else

The key is trying to manage it as best as we can

Fair points there.
The worst parts of DC like Anacostia and Brentwood are immeasurably more dangerous than places like Pill.
I had to drive through some parts of New York Avenue every Monday and it was really bad, sometimes not stopping at red lights.

[goats]

Re: Immigration levels

You are correct. And neither has any society. Things are far too complex for that and perfection is impossible. Even allowing for it being the period of my youth however, it's hard not to view things as having been better twenty years or so ago. We shouldnt view things as ever being fantastic. What decade didn't have its troubles? But there is an overwhelming air of hopelessness at the moment.

There seemed to be a sweet spot in the mid 90s to the financial crash, and we've never recovered from it. 2008/09 was the start of real shift.

Various technological changes, the way we consume news and socialize, every day stresses and huge social pressures have made things worse still in my opinion.

I do think we all need to factor in our minds natural rose tinted glow it puts on memories but I do feel worse about the country than I ever have before. Like, I genuinely feel a bit sorry for my kids, which is a truly awful feeling.

There is of course no single reason for this feeling, but I think it's common.

Encourage your kids to move abroad, Oz are recruiting for the future really well, whereas we are taking in 1000’s of uber eats delivery people and forking out millions every week to house them. Prices for living going through the roof probably not enough working people to run the country anymore just so many on benefits it seems

[Heathblue]

Re: Immigration levels

Encourage your kids to move abroad, Oz are recruiting for the future really well, whereas we are taking in 1000’s of uber eats delivery people and forking out millions every week to house them. Prices for living going through the roof probably not enough working people to run the country anymore just so many on benefits it seems

Just enjoy the Engineers and Doctors Goats, Pill style :hehe:

Meanwhile in Wales... 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🙈 https://t.co/53S894ptRa

— Football Fights (@footbalIfights) August 2, 2025

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Immigration levels

Encourage your kids to move abroad, Oz are recruiting for the future really well, whereas we are taking in 1000’s of uber eats delivery people and forking out millions every week to house them. Prices for living going through the roof probably not enough working people to run the country anymore just so many on benefits it seems

Said, without a hint of irony!

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Immigration levels

Said, without a hint of irony!

Hey Cyril, this isn’t aimed at you specifically even though I addressed you.
This goes out to everyone across the political spectrum regardless of where your view lands as to what’s best for Wales, The UK and The West in general (That’s not to disregard other parts of the world of course, just speaking about what most of us grew up with and live in).

Do you lads see a pathway in the near future to discuss issues with civility?
Would people rather be proved correct in their views or be proven wrong if things do somehow take an uptick?

This is coming from someone who thinks that he’s The Oracle on many things and has been bombastic about them…but I would love to be wrong for the betterment of things.

Can we make concessions that things might be for the greater good even though it goes against your immediate judgment?
With modern leaders of the world, I grant that the greater good is the furthest things from their minds…still, hypothetically?

How many of you have friends diametrically opposite to you politically?

I walk a tight rope a lot as things are so bad here at times that bar fights break out and neighbors stop talking to each other.
Polarized, entrenched politics is the biggest regression that we have made in my lifetime.

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Immigration levels

https://youtu.be/t7SvtikTkrM?si=CD2Yny2-K5g5EHaa

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Immigration levels

Hey Cyril, this isnÂ’t aimed at you specifically even though I addressed you.
This goes out to everyone across the political spectrum regardless of where your view lands as to whatÂ’s best for Wales, The UK and The West in general (ThatÂ’s not to disregard other parts of the world of course, just speaking about what most of us grew up with and live in).

Do you lads see a pathway in the near future to discuss issues with civility?
Would people rather be proved correct in their views or be proven wrong if things do somehow take an uptick?

This is coming from someone who thinks that heÂ’s The Oracle on many things and has been bombastic about themÂ…but I would love to be wrong for the betterment of things.

Can we make concessions that things might be for the greater good even though it goes against your immediate judgment?
With modern leaders of the world, I grant that the greater good is the furthest things from their mindsÂ…still, hypothetically?

How many of you have friends diametrically opposite to you politically?

I walk a tight rope a lot as things are so bad here at times that bar fights break out and neighbors stop talking to each other.
Polarized, entrenched politics is the biggest regression that we have made in my lifetime.

Quite a lot of questions there on the back of a one-liner highlighting the irony of someone suggesting James's kids should become immigrants in search of a better life in a thread called immigration levels.

I think we see this part of the Board in slightly different ways. The political or philosophical views expressed here seem mainly projections of people's personalities first and foremost. In that scenario the subject matter is often irrelevant or unimportant. Being seen in your own mind to be right and chasing often arcane points to reinforce this is what matters. Either that or they derive some pleasure out of taking the piss and rubbishing others views.

I believe that covers the majority of the regular posters here, including me! There are people like Jon who regularly post out of principle but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I think that covers the likelihood of behavioural change from your first few questions. As far as friendships are concerned it is almost certain that far more of my friends don't share my political views than do. A few outflank me on the left but mostly on the right.

In this part of my life we probably bite our tongues more on the odd occasions we discuss beliefs because we value friendship above those tenets.

On here, not so much. Personally I don't see anything wrong with that either as long as things don't stray into petty or tedious abuse. I found Organ Morgan's views off the scale for instance but I don't believe we were uncivil towards each other compared with say TWGL1 or other banned posters.

In general, if people derive some gratification from their posting persona here, even if that includes getting a bit triggered or combative every now and then I don't think the discourse is harmful. Unless of course if your personality is such that you think you have special skills and can't cope when shown to be wrong. But that is a discussion for another day.

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Immigration levels

Quite a lot of questions there on the back of a one-liner highlighting the irony of someone suggesting James's kids should become immigrants in search of a better life in a thread called immigration levels.

I think we see this part of the Board in slightly different ways. The political or philosophical views expressed here seem mainly projections of people's personalities first and foremost. In that scenario the subject matter is often irrelevant or unimportant. Being seen in your own mind to be right and chasing often arcane points to reinforce this is what matters. Either that or they derive some pleasure out of taking the piss and rubbishing others views.

I believe that covers the majority of the regular posters here, including me! There are people like Jon who regularly post out of principle but they are the exception rather than the rule.

I think that covers the likelihood of behavioural change from your first few questions. As far as friendships are concerned it is almost certain that far more of my friends don't share my political views than do. A few outflank me on the left but mostly on the right.

In this part of my life we probably bite our tongues more on the odd occasions we discuss beliefs because we value friendship above those tenets.

On here, not so much. Personally I don't see anything wrong with that either as long as things don't stray into petty or tedious abuse. I found Organ Morgan's views off the scale for instance but I don't believe we were uncivil towards each other compared with say TWGL1 or other banned posters.

In general, if people derive some gratification from their posting persona here, even if that includes getting a bit triggered or combative every now and then I don't think the discourse is harmful. Unless of course if your personality is such that you think you have special skills and can't cope when shown to be wrong. But that is a discussion for another day.

Thank You for such a considered response to what was really a barrage of questions.
It really is spot on how I believe adults should behave.

As I said it wasn’t aimed at you personally… it was aimed at everyone, you just happened to rerun a serve to a post that was indeed dripping in irony.

My interest, worry or beef is Ad Hominem attacks.

I’m going to get pelters for this…and it’s on me for saying it. I personally think that the treatment of James Wales on here is appalling.

He could be diametrically opposed to posters politically here but quite reasonable, likable and charismatic if you were out drinking together.

There is also the possibility that he is a massive C**t, but unless you know him…Who’s to say?

It’s a mental platform where the written word is the only form of expression (not withstanding videos etc to back up a belief).

A few posters on here had boiled my piss for years and then usually the morning of a pissed up diatribe I find myself immersed in guilt or shame for being a dick myself.

I do believe we are in pastures new and I do honestly believe that civil discourse is inevitable. I wonder though how much of this down to the anger that people feel about issues in their daily life or how much is driven by words on any social media platform that are backed up by one echo chamber and attacked
by another echo chamber.

The big change of course is the speed in which one can get their views out there to either agree or attack.

This is obviously rudimentary thinking, it’s been picked up a gazillion times by whoever decides to throw their opinion about regarding Social Media.

We are, in my opinion a lot more unreasonable now.
Our attention spans or shorter now and vanity his increased to where we don’t live in the moment…we just want to catch the best photo to make people think that we are having the time of our lives and look tidy all the time.

Have a feeling that I’m typing off on a tangent but it is from the heart.

A simple “Your talking Bollocks, Son” used to work. I think I probably am right now.

I just want to see more civility towards each other. I’d like to be able to disagree with posters politically and still be able to think..fair play, food for thought there.

Ce Sera Sera.