Runcorn by election.

[Elwood Blues]

Re: Runcorn by election.

that isn't really true - reform have taken more voters from the tories than they have Labour

But how many of those Tories were Labour until 2019 and would with a popular government have returned to them?

[JamesWales]

Re: Runcorn by election.

that isn't really true - reform have taken more voters from the tories than they have Labour

Yeah I know, although in many parts of the country it's the other way around. The rural south has shifted more Tory to Lib Dem too.

Either way, stereotypes don't really fit.

[Heathblue]

Re: Runcorn by election.

He wants an argument doesn’t he. I’d also be fascinated to know what Reform’s policies are, much like the Brexit Party’s probably, but then what did they stand for? We know Farage doesn’t like immigrants and the EU and loves money in his pocket and Donald Trump but that’s about it really.

Shirley you must see, and using this current lot more than any other mob, having a manifesto means jack shit. ? I know those who went before didn't bother with implementation of their manifestos either !!!.

[goats]

Re: Runcorn by election.

I know and work with a load of tradesman, all well paid, mostly Labour voters but the odd Tory (the electricians usually) and every single one I’ve spoken too in the last 3 months said they plan to vote for reform. People have had an absolute guts full of the usual two, the alternative might not be better but who knows….make Britain great again eh?

[Rjk]

Re: Runcorn by election.

We shouldn't be surprised about the rise of a right wing party here, as they seem to have been on the increase across many countries.

I suppose looking from the outside it's tempting to think that these are the same shysters who told us that Brexit would be a brilliant idea, whereas it has mostly been a shitshow while a lot of these people have managed to line their own pockets from it - why would anyone fall for the same shite twice?

but the underlying issues that led to brexit are still there. its harder for regular people to make a decent living while the rich get richer - and they don't think that the status quo of labour or tory will ever change this, so its a protest vote.

I think a reform government would be an absolute disaster for the working man though - low tax and cut backs to public services. Austerity +

[JamesWales]

Re: Runcorn by election.

Hull and East Yorkshire Mayor..

Reform: 48,491
LibDems: 37,510
Tories: 21,393
Labour: 18,568
Green: 5,049
Yorkshire Party: 4,372

Things have definitely changed. Not just today, it's been changing for years but accelerated today. It used to be people would turn to the Lib Dems as protest but there are now other viable options that don't count as wasted votes.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Runcorn by election.

The average reform voter is the average Labour voter from about 15 years ago. I don't think any party has supporters more or less engaged in the minutiae of local government. In my experience previously few really understand the process, unfortunately

The labour party have seen plenty of former voters sway to reform

But it is undoubtedly the conservatives who have suffered most from the rise of reform

Absolutely no question of that and backed up by Prof Jon Curtice

The question is rather academic now as its how the centre and left deal with the prevailing situation.....a right wing vote beyond the Tories....of probably 20 percent

I personally think that's the problem ....these people think that reform speaks for them and they now have a party to vote for

They won't be coming back to the main parties and even farage being caught dressed as Adolf Hitler won't bother them

So merge the centre and left and defeat the right wing at the ballot box by sheer numbers or the country will end up like America

The people I am aware of that vote reform are wannabee trump creeps anyway so it's par for the course

Reform are not going to be defeated by reasoned argument and that's where Starmer , The Liberals , Traditional Tories etc are absolutely wasting their time

[JamesWales]

Re: Runcorn by election.

The labour party have seen plenty of former voters sway to reform

But it is undoubtedly the conservatives who have suffered most from the rise of reform

Absolutely no question of that and backed up by Prof Jon Curtice

The question is rather academic now as its how the centre and left deal with the prevailing situation.....a right wing vote beyond the Tories....of probably 20 percent

I personally think that's the problem ....these people think that reform speaks for them and they now have a party to vote for

They won't be coming back to the main parties and even farage being caught dressed as Adolf Hitler won't bother them

So merge the centre and left and defeat the right wing at the ballot box by sheer numbers or the country will end up like America

The people I am aware of that vote reform are wannabee trump creeps anyway so it's par for the course

Reform are not going to be defeated by reasoned argument and that's where Starmer , The Liberals , Traditional Tories etc are absolutely wasting their time

You got so close to posting that without mentioning Trump or Adolf Hitler! Only two paragraphs and you would have been there! Other than that a fine example of reasoned argument 😂

[Dorcus]

Re: Runcorn by election.

He's seems more European than most in his choice of partners. He parted from his wife and subsequently co-habited with his present squeeze, a French politician by the name of Ferrari.

She's playing fast and loose with our dear Nige

[Dorcus]

Re: Runcorn by election.

Ah, but have their voters actually read it?

I'm not sure most of their voters are capable of reading it.

[Dorcus]

Re: Runcorn by election.

We shouldn't be surprised about the rise of a right wing party here, as they seem to have been on the increase across many countries.

I suppose looking from the outside it's tempting to think that these are the same shysters who told us that Brexit would be a brilliant idea, whereas it has mostly been a shitshow while a lot of these people have managed to line their own pockets from it - why would anyone fall for the same shite twice?

but the underlying issues that led to brexit are still there. its harder for regular people to make a decent living while the rich get richer - and they don't think that the status quo of labour or tory will ever change this, so its a protest vote.

I think a reform government would be an absolute disaster for the working man though - low tax and cut backs to public services. Austerity +

Reform would be Tories on steroids but without even a semblance of administrative nous. These "hard working" tradesmen types who are attracted to Farage like flies to shit will be seriously disappointed or worse if Nige's mob ever blustered their way into power.

[Dorcus]

Re: Runcorn by election.

But how many of those Tories were Labour until 2019 and would with a popular government have returned to them?

About an hour ago the seat changes were Reform +480, Libs +54?, Greens +? Labour -124, Tories -377! Given that the incumbent government always gets a hammering in these protest votes, I'd say the situation is far more serious for the Tories. The Libs and Greens would have picked up Labour votes in the main but some have understandably drifted to Reform. But the Tories would have lost the bulk of their 377 seats to Reform, with maybe a couple going to the Libs. Starmer's government rightly took a bloody nosey from it's core vote but the Tories' loss is existential. They have lost all relevance.

[JamesWales]

Re: Runcorn by election.

Reform would be Tories on steroids but without even a semblance of administrative nous. These "hard working" tradesmen types who are attracted to Farage like flies to shit will be seriously disappointed or worse if Nige's mob ever blustered their way into power.

Sounds like they are seriously disappointed as it is though.

[Dorcus]

Re: Runcorn by election.

Sounds like they are seriously disappointed as it is though.

Quite so and they should be. This may prove the end of two party politics as we knew it. I also think in any future elections tactical voting might work against Nige. Lots of One Nation Tories will want to scupper them. The political roadmap has never been quite so blurred.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Runcorn by election.

Hull and East Yorkshire Mayor..

Reform: 48,491
LibDems: 37,510
Tories: 21,393
Labour: 18,568
Green: 5,049
Yorkshire Party: 4,372

Things have definitely changed. Not just today, it's been changing for years but accelerated today. It used to be people would turn to the Lib Dems as protest but there are now other viable options that don't count as wasted votes.

For Farage in the 20s, read Mosley in the 30s, the motivation behind their parties is as old as the hills. In times of economic turmoil, populist grifters come to the fore offering all things to all men, and women.