Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

why is it selfish? This is something the left continually trot out about conservative voters, but conservatism isn't about self at all - that's a myth peddled by the left who think they are somehow making those on the right feel bad.

Having a party that promotes individual freedoms, actively encourages business and maintains the institutions of society isn't selfish, its going about things a different way.

Your comment is lazy and is akin to saying Labour voters are work shy preferring to receive benefits off the back of those that work.

Left and right are two different approaches to the same problem, none are perfect, on some occasions left wing approaches work, on others right wing approaches do. you'd have to be pretty naive to think only one method is better than the other - if it was, governments all over the world would be adherents to that particular approach.

Just imagine what life could be like if we rejected the idea of left and right and just worked together to solve problems ....oh! :facepalm:

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

A few points in reply, your response suggests that what I said rattled your cage

not at all, just passing comment that you repeat this point ad nauseum

a bit, also you’ve spent a decade and more telling us on here that right is right,

and given the majority of those posters on here are myopic left wingers, take a wild guess why that was?

so it’s hard to reconcile you with being the reasonable man in the middle seeing both sides of the argument.

its easier to adopt the opinion that all politicians are self serving wankers, no matter whether they are on the left or right. all are equally bereft of empathy for the common man.

However, although I do associate Conservatism with greed (I’ve always thought there is a dividing line between aspiration and greed, but it can be a thin one) and always will do, I was also making a general point that people tend to get more selfish/self absorbed as they get older - I have to admit I have.

hardly surprising as earning potential diminishes as you get older, and you want stability in old age. The same can be said that a lot of young people are dreamers who believe they can change the world. they may as well believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

not at all, just passing comment that you repeat this point ad nauseum


and given the majority of those posters on here are myopic left wingers, take a wild guess why that was?

its easier to adopt the opinion that all politicians are self serving wankers, no matter whether they are on the left or right. all are equally bereft of empathy for the common man.

hardly surprising as earning potential diminishes as you get older, and you want stability in old age. The same can be said that a lot of young people are dreamers who believe they can change the world. they may as well believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden

So, you’re either saying that you now think what you told us for a decade and more was wrong or, alternatively, it was a wind up - either way, it’s hard to place much faith in what you say now.

[jon1959]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

you can only begin to imagine my shock at reading this.

I know! So many years wasted as 'a conformist, church-going Lib Dem voter'. At least there is a happy ending. :thumbup:

[life on mars]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

why is it selfish? This is something the left continually trot out about conservative voters, but conservatism isn't about self at all - that's a myth peddled by the left who think they are somehow making those on the right feel bad.

Having a party that promotes individual freedoms, actively encourages business and maintains the institutions of society isn't selfish, its going about things a different way.

Your comment is lazy and is akin to saying Labour voters are work shy preferring to receive benefits off the back of those that work.

Left and right are two different approaches to the same problem, none are perfect, on some occasions left wing approaches work, on others right wing approaches do. you'd have to be pretty naive to think only one method is better than the other - if it was, governments all over the world would be adherents to that particular approach.

VERY GOOD POST

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

So, you’re either saying that you now think what you told us for a decade and more was wrong or, alternatively, it was a wind up - either way, it’s hard to place much faith in what you say now.

not quite a wind up, just ruffling a few feathers for those who refuse to see the wood for the trees.

as for your final comment, given your lack of faith in whatever was written previously, status quo ante bellum springs to mind.

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

I know! So many years wasted as 'a conformist, church-going Lib Dem voter'. At least there is a happy ending. :thumbup:

:hehe:

you and I have different ideas of what a happy ending entails

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

VERY GOOD POST

On what basis?

Saying 'Having a party that promotes individual freedoms, actively encourages business, and maintains the institutions of society isn't selfish, it's going about things a different way' is completely incorrect. Why? A party can do all those things and still be selfish at the same time. In fact, it could be argued that doing those things are the most selfish of all. It can't be argued that because a party does those things it is good for everyone and the environment. It can (and in my opinion) make things much worse.

Going about things a different way? That really doesn't stack up on any level. If we all tried to use that argument we could justify anything.

And I don't understand the part'akin to saying Labour voters are work-shy preferring to receive benefits off the back of those that work' - the first point argues an ideology the second point is an insult.

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

On what basis?

Saying 'Having a party that promotes individual freedoms, actively encourages business, and maintains the institutions of society isn't selfish, it's going about things a different way' is completely incorrect. Why? A party can do all those things and still be selfish at the same time. In fact, it could be argued that doing those things are the most selfish of all. It can't be argued that because a party does those things it is good for everyone and the environment. It can (and in my opinion) make things much worse.

Going about things a different way? That really doesn't stack up on any level. If we all tried to use that argument we could justify anything.

And I don't understand the part'akin to saying Labour voters are work-shy preferring to receive benefits off the back of those that work' - the first point argues an ideology the second point is an insult.

You're seeing that from your left wing point of view. You think being called a work shy slacker who relies on others for benefits is insulting, but saying someone is selfish and only interested in themselves isn't.

Bizarre.

Both are wrong of course, unless you only see the world in shades of left or right

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Having a party that promotes individual freedoms, actively encourages business and maintains the institutions of society isn't selfish, its going about things a different way.

I think your frame of reference might be a few years out of date if you are you talking about the Conservative party.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

The history in Hartlepool is fascinating as political trends go

1997 > 26k Huge Peter Mandelson Labour win ,only 3 parties standing then Tories with 18k in second place
2004 > 12.7k Labour win
2005 > 18.2k Labour win ( Tories in 3rd place with 4k )
2010 > 16.2k Labour win ( Tories into 2nd with 10.7k)
2015 > 15.1k Labour win ( Tories back to 3rd place with 8.2k , Brexit Party 2nd with 11k )
2017 > 21.8k Labour win ( Tories back into 2nd with 14.3k)
2019 > 15.4k Labour win ( Tories 2nd with 11.8k )
2021 > 15.2k Tory Win ( Labour 2nd with 8.5k )

Where have the voters gone. Combined labour/ Tory votes 1997.. .. 44K; In 2021.... 24K

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

You're seeing that from your left wing point of view. You think being called a work shy slacker who relies on others for benefits is insulting, but saying someone is selfish and only interested in themselves isn't.

Bizarre.

Both are wrong of course, unless you only see the world in shades of left or right

You can't say 'your left-wing point of view' and then suggest I see the world in shades of left or right. That's called projection.

[Wash DC Blue]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

Politics is horrible really.

I do think that most people want what’s best for society...it’s just been ramped up to such a stage that it’s just toxic.

I’ve certainly contributed to toxicity on here, try my best not to offer a contrarian position or one that will upset someone.
But then suddenly my ire cannot be pacified, I post my opinion in a prickish way....and while I may feel good about it for a short while, I ultimately I regret it.

I think my point here is that nuances, respectful disagreements and finer points are foregone online in favour of a one size “Fitz Hall” my side against yours.

Ultimately, when things are really partisan no one wins.
We are seeing it more and more now and it’s sad.

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

I think your frame of reference might be a few years out of date if you are you talking about the Conservative party.

perhaps, but traditional conservatism is about those very things, and whilst the blue corner today may not be a fully paid up member, its about as good as we have hence why some people with conservative values still vote for the blues.

[Feedback]

Re: Hammering For Labour In Hartlepool

You can't say 'your left-wing point of view' and then suggest I see the world in shades of left or right. That's called projection.

not its not, its called a point of view.

how many times do you see left wing posters on here refer to the right as evil, nasty, selfish. ditto the right wingers calling the left workshy, scroungers, lazy

neither are true, but you will believe it to be the case if you are firmly entrenched in one camp or the other.