Consciousness

[stevo]

Where do you stand on the topic of consciousness?

Is it a byproduct of physical matter, one that can’t be explained by any of the sciences?

Or does consciousness create the physical reality we all experience?

[jon1959]

Re: Consciousness

Where do you stand on the topic of consciousness?

Is it a byproduct of physical matter, one that can’t be explained by any of the sciences?

Or does consciousness create the physical reality we all experience?

I think it is the first.

But I don't have the expertise, or even the language, to justify that opinion. It feels right as an explanation.

[stevo]

Re: Consciousness

I think it is the first.

But I don't have the expertise, or even the language, to justify that opinion. It feels right as an explanation.

Do you think physics / biology / chemistry will ever explain it? I think they may eventually fully explain the soft problem of consciousness but I can't ever see them explaining the hard problem of consciousness.

At some point, I'll list a whole bunch of things that I think make a case for the second scenario. Just interested whether other people give the concept consciousness much thought.

I read a great book earlier this year called Conscious: A Brief Guide to the Fundamental Mystery of the Mind (2019) by Annaka Harris. I recommend it to anyone.

[jon1959]

Re: Consciousness

Do you think physics / biology / chemistry will ever explain it? I think they may eventually fully explain the soft problem of consciousness but I can't ever see them explaining the hard problem of consciousness.

At some point, I'll list a whole bunch of things that I think make a case for the second scenario. Just interested whether other people give the concept consciousness much thought.

I read a great book earlier this year called Conscious: A Brief Guide to the Fundamental Mystery of the Mind (2019) by Annaka Harris. I recommend it to anyone.

Thanks for the recommendation. I may have a look sometime.

I haven't got much to add on this but my other 'thought' is about at what stage of evolution does consciousness happen - do single cell organisms have consciousness? Does it develop with primitive animals that learn and react to their environment in order to acquire the necessities of life and avoid threats? Is consciousness only found in more developed/complex animals? Does it only apply to humans?

What is hard-wired, what is reflex, what is a product of the chemical processes going on in the body or brain (for animals with a brain) and what is independent consciousness distinct from programmed reactions and responses?

I don't know the answers, but I think there is probably a crossover point within the first scenario where synapses fire off in a combination that creates something self-sustaining that can grow and develop.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Consciousness

Bertrand Russell?

Sorry that's philosophy

[Jordi Culé]

Re: Consciousness

'Education is used to stop children developing higher consciousness' to stop us from developing higher states of mind and thus making the population easier to control and manage.

David Icke

[Feedback]

Re: Consciousness

evolution is series of small steps to make one giant leap....

here's the thing, if we define consciousness as a response to certain stimuli, being able to reason, to acknowledge ones self, then at some point in the evolutionary chain, there was no consciousness as we know it. That means there must have been a first, where the offspring was aware whereas their parents were not.

[stevo]

Re: Consciousness

Unless consciousness existed before the physical universe we experience today.

[truthpaste]

Re: Consciousness

evolution is series of small steps to make one giant leap....

here's the thing, if we define consciousness as a response to certain stimuli, being able to reason, to acknowledge ones self, then at some point in the evolutionary chain, there was no consciousness as we know it. That means there must have been a first, where the offspring was aware whereas their parents were not.

As per the first post (one that can’t be explained by any of the sciences?), science flounders on this subject, and the individual who seeks to see the universe and all that is in it via this one lens will end up with a head that is well scratched.

Your insight above - "there must have been a first" - is, I believe the key to unlocking this mystery.

[stevo]

Re: Consciousness

Some (non-scientific) evidence to support consciousness came before matter

Near Death Experiences (NDEs)

If our consciousness was a thing before we were born, it stands to reason that it will still exist after we die. There hundreds if not, thousands of NDE accounts out there, including dedicated YouTube channels. Watch / listen to 10 or 20 of those accounts and you'll find that although their experiences are unique, they share a lot of common themes.

Quantum Mechanics

The Dual Slit experiment suggests consciousness plays a part in dictating our reality. Also, the laws of non-locality suggest our 3D/4D universe is not what it would seem.

Telepathy

I've mentioned The Telepathy Tapes podcast before. I defy anyone who has listened to the series to not be convinced there's something in this. Season 2 starts mid October. For those of you who don't do podcasts, they've just finished filming a documentary that still needs to go through editing, so won't be making its way to Film Festivals until March next year. Then you can expect to see it on a major streaming service. But the podcast (which became the most listened to last year for a while, overtaking Joe Rogan) is the most profound, moving and at times heart-breaking podcast / thing I've ever heard.

Remote Viewing

Yes, it's a thing. Thousands of declassified documents out there regarding the Stargate Programme. Books have been written on the subject including those written by some of the best remote viewers - e.g. Joe McMoneagle, Ingo Swann, Lyn Buchanan. As always plenty on YouTube too. Anyone can learn to do this. Naturally, some will be better than others.


DMT / Ayahuasca

I don't think anyone can comment on this unless they've tried it, but plenty of videos on YouTube detailing people's experiences.


Further recommended reading (but start with Annaka Harris' Conscious mentioned upthread):

Annie Jacobsen - Phenomena (The secret history of the US government's investigations into extrasensory perception and psychokinesis)
Thomas Campbell - My Big TOE (Theory of Everything)
Robert Lanza - Biocentrism -

[truthpaste]

Re: Consciousness

Some (non-scientific) evidence to support consciousness came before matter

Near Death Experiences (NDEs)

If our consciousness was a thing before we were born, it stands to reason that it will still exist after we die. There hundreds if not, thousands of NDE accounts out there, including dedicated YouTube channels. Watch / listen to 10 or 20 of those accounts and you'll find that although their experiences are unique, they share a lot of common themes.

Quantum Mechanics

The Dual Slit experiment suggests consciousness plays a part in dictating our reality. Also, the laws of non-locality suggest our 3D/4D universe is not what it would seem.

Telepathy

I've mentioned The Telepathy Tapes podcast before. I defy anyone who has listened to the series to not be convinced there's something in this. Season 2 starts mid October. For those of you who don't do podcasts, they've just finished filming a documentary that still needs to go through editing, so won't be making its way to Film Festivals until March next year. Then you can expect to see it on a major streaming service. But the podcast (which became the most listened to last year for a while, overtaking Joe Rogan) is the most profound, moving and at times heart-breaking podcast / thing I've ever heard.

Remote Viewing

Yes, it's a thing. Thousands of declassified documents out there regarding the Stargate Programme. Books have been written on the subject including those written by some of the best remote viewers - e.g. Joe McMoneagle, Ingo Swann, Lyn Buchanan. As always plenty on YouTube too. Anyone can learn to do this. Naturally, some will be better than others.


DMT / Ayahuasca

I don't think anyone can comment on this unless they've tried it, but plenty of videos on YouTube detailing people's experiences.


Further recommended reading (but start with Annaka Harris' Conscious mentioned upthread):

Annie Jacobsen - Phenomena (The secret history of the US government's investigations into extrasensory perception and psychokinesis)
Thomas Campbell - My Big TOE (Theory of Everything)
Robert Lanza - Biocentrism -

Even when limiting ourselves to scientific data alone, we have to ignore massive amounts of evidence to maintain the view that we are simply flesh and blood; unfortunately for many in our secular western world, the alternative is too uncomfortable to explore, but credit to you for asking these challenging questions.

[stevo]

Re: Consciousness

I’ve since realised though that this is not the place to ask them [sigh].

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Consciousness

I’ve since realised though that this is not the place to ask them [sigh].

Too many subjects all at once and possibly mixing science with pseudo-science. It may be best to introduce each topic separately in order to discuss them in detail.

[stevo]

Re: Consciousness

Consciousness is one subject afaic. What aspects do you consider pseudoscience?

[truthpaste]

Re: Consciousness

Unless consciousness existed before the physical universe we experience today.

Even AI (inc Grok) concludes this is the only valid explanation for what we observe in science etc