Strait Of Trump

[JamesWales]

Re: Strait Of Trump

It reminds me of Minneapolis

Except fifteen thousand times more dead.

[jon1959]

Re: Strait Of Trump

Its not hard to find videos of every day life anywhere Eric. It doesn't change what happens there, even if some of you like to sweep it under the carpet.

Here's another video from YouTube.

But you guys keep talking about the ones of the guy asking for coffees! ��

https://youtube.com/shorts/LT-flnKC9...5UOm4bmu5Lse9o

A protest movement that has been hamstrung by Trump and Netanyahu's illegal war. The regime has not been changed. Much of Iranian civil society has been unified in opposition to the US and Israeli attacks. The opposition movement has lost its momentum and become far more vulnerable to repression by a regime that can use the US/Israeli blitz as cover. And as every day goes by more civilians and civilian infrastructure are targeted by a loon who wants to rename the Strait of Hormuz, the Strait of Trump!

That is not the guy who is asking random Iranian passers-by to go for a coffee.

[Dorcus]

Re: Strait Of Trump

Except fifteen thousand times more dead.

I don't know about that figure but certainly more. However who knows how many innocent lives could have been lost in the US had the citizenry rioted against ICE throughout the country. I'm sure you'd agree there would be substantial loss of life.

[JamesWales]

Re: Strait Of Trump

I don't know about that figure but certainly more. However who knows how many innocent lives could have been lost in the US had the citizenry rioted against ICE throughout the country. I'm sure you'd agree there would be substantial loss of life.

It would have been, but they wouldn't have needed to riot for the right to vote or for basic freedoms you and I take for granted as they have done in Iran - only to be brutally murdered for it - and for many (generally people on the left in my experience) to large ignore it and then march alongside the regines supporters

I find it absolutely bizarre, how blind people can be when it suits them

[JamesWales]

Re: Strait Of Trump

A protest movement that has been hamstrung by Trump and Netanyahu's illegal war. The regime has not been changed. Much of Iranian civil society has been unified in opposition to the US and Israeli attacks. The opposition movement has lost its momentum and become far more vulnerable to repression by a regime that can use the US/Israeli blitz as cover. And as every day goes by more civilians and civilian infrastructure are targeted by a loon who wants to rename the Strait of Hormuz, the Strait of Trump!

That is not the guy who is asking random Iranian passers-by to go for a coffee.

Can't you just condemn a murderous brutal regime once in your life Jon, without mentioning the US or Israel?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Strait Of Trump

Its not hard to find videos of every day life anywhere Eric. It doesn't change what happens there, even if some of you like to sweep it under the carpet.

You need to grow up James and stop trying to win internet arguments against strawmen.

I am like most people, unfortunately I form opinions of countries and their populations based on almost no information so it always interests me to see how 'normal' these kind of places can be.

Nobody is saying its not oppressive, nobody is disputing people have been killed for protesting but it interested me to see people just living (dressing, acting, conversing) very normally by western standards in a country we are led to believe is some burka wearing Islamist hell hole.

Also you are being very wriggly about this particular issue, I am pretty sure if you were asked whether you support what Trump has done, you would say no. But then you are in every thread having a go at anybody who criticises Trump because they haven't prepared the wicket by ALSO criticising the Iranian regime. It's just really weird and anti-discussion.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Strait Of Trump

Can't you just condemn a murderous brutal regime once in your life Jon, without mentioning the US or Israel?

Interesting, so he MUST criticise Iran if he wants to criticise the USA but he MUST NOT also criticise Israel when criticising Iran. Are there any other dodgy rules we need to be made aware of?

[JamesWales]

Re: Strait Of Trump

You need to grow up James and stop trying to win internet arguments against strawmen.

I am like most people, unfortunately I form opinions of countries and their populations based on almost no information so it always interests me to see how 'normal' these kind of places can be.

Nobody is saying its not oppressive, nobody is disputing people have been killed for protesting but it interested me to see people just living (dressing, acting, conversing) very normally by western standards in a country we are led to believe is some burka wearing Islamist hell hole.

Also you are being very wriggly about this particular issue, I am pretty sure if you were asked whether you support what Trump has done, you would say no. But then you are in every thread having a go at anybody who criticises Trump because they haven't prepared the wicket by ALSO criticising the Iranian regime. It's just really weird and anti-discussion.

I'm critising people who gloss over what happens in Iran, as Dorcus seemed to have done earlier. There is a history of this, but it comes into sharper focus when people forget about the murder of its own citizens just a few months ago and almost try to imply it hadn't happened.

Your video was interesting. It is interesting learning about how people live under repressive regimes and I read a lot on that in a 20th century European context.

However, in a discussion about state murder in East Germany I probably wouldnt respond by posting a video of people enjoying a holiday on the north sea, as also happened at the time!

[JamesWales]

Re: Strait Of Trump

Interesting, so he MUST criticise Iran if he wants to criticise the USA but he MUST NOT also criticise Israel when criticising Iran. Are there any other dodgy rules we need to be made aware of?

He can do what he likes. He's free to think what he likes. Unlike, no for example, the people in Iran!

But context matters. Seeing people largely ignore what happened earlier this year in Iran doesn't sit comfortably with me.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Strait Of Trump

It would have been, but they wouldn't have needed to riot for the right to vote or for basic freedoms you and I take for granted as they have done in Iran - only to be brutally murdered for it - and for many (generally people on the left in my experience) to large ignore it and then march alongside the regines supporters

I find it absolutely bizarre, how blind people can be when it suits them

Basic freedoms like like the fourth amendment which ICE breaks all the flipping time?

[Dorcus]

Re: Strait Of Trump

It would have been, but they wouldn't have needed to riot for the right to vote or for basic freedoms you and I take for granted as they have done in Iran - only to be brutally murdered for it - and for many (generally people on the left in my experience) to large ignore it and then march alongside the regines supporters

I find it absolutely bizarre, how blind people can be when it suits them

I find it absolutely bizarre people can be taken in by propaganda.

I don't hear you condemning Saudi Arabia too much and I'm not aware of any plans Trump has to liberate the North Koreans.

The real reason the US and the West abhor Iran is not because of perceived human rights abuses but simply because it is an enemy of Israel.

The more the US and Israel persistently attack Iran the more the Iranians become entrenched in their desire to secure a nuclear weapon. As North Korea has proven it's the most obvious way to deter attacks on itself

By the way people in Minneapolis got shot not for rioting for basic freedoms but just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[JamesWales]

Re: Strait Of Trump

Basic freedoms like like the fourth amendment which ICE breaks all the flipping time?

Two people died under ICE in the summer. 30,000 in Iran.

Why do so many of you seemingly care so much more about the 2 than the 30,000?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Strait Of Trump

He can do what he likes. He's free to think what he likes. Unlike, no for example, the people in Iran!

But context matters. Seeing people largely ignore what happened earlier this year in Iran doesn't sit comfortably with me.

It doesn't affect us James, it sucks that the world is full of shit countries and people in terrible circumstances, we a) aren't capable of fixing it and b) definitely can't fix it by carpet bombing their homeland.

What does affect is complete instability, not just economically but the potential for harmony between religions and people in the UK.

If you think Jon supports the Iranian regime then you are bonkers.

There are plenty of terrible things in the world that I haven't seen you mention, but you keep going on about the Iranian regime, should I assume you support those things?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Strait Of Trump

Two people died under ICE in the summer. 30,000 in Iran.

Why do so many of you seemingly care so much more about the 2 than the 30,000?

Goalposts moving, yawn. You said people in the USA 'wouldn't have needed to riot for the right to vote or for basic freedoms, the fourth amendment is a basic freedom.

[JamesWales]

Re: Strait Of Trump

It doesn't affect us James, it sucks that the world is full of shit countries and people in terrible circumstances, we a) aren't capable of fixing it and b) definitely can't fix it by carpet bombing their homeland.

What does affect is complete instability, not just economically but the potential for harmony between religions and people in the UK.

If you think Jon supports the Iranian regime then you are bonkers.

There are plenty of terrible things in the world that I haven't seen you mention, but you keep going on about the Iranian regime, should I assume you support those things?

The point here is that many of you completely gloss over it. Ignore it and view it only through a prism of Israel and the US and try to downplay what's happened this year, as Dorcus implied that Trump had unleashed hell, when 30,000 people were killed by their own government.

So Dorcus tries to imply it doesn't happen. You post a video about some bloke asking people for coffees and then talking about the 4th amendment in America. Jon can't condemn it without talking about Israel and I don't know any of your thoughts on the regime, but it doesn't sound like much condemnation towards them is forthcoming.