So it's National Insurance then

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Re: So it's National Insurance then

If all this money is going into social care do you think the poorly paid ......many on 9 quid an hour .....health care staff that work for these money making private companies will benefit ?

Better pay

Better work conditions


No chance

Social care should be brought back under local authority complete control

At present social services send out a job for these private care companies to bid for ....lowest bidder ......paying crap wages ....gets the work

The directors rake in the cash , the staff are treated like dirt

And if you think your loved ones are treated and cared for by well paid , motivated staff when in care homes .......think again

LAs can stipulate that those tendering must meet certain obligations, such as a minimum level of pay. There is no reason why the LAs can't dictate the terms.

[Vindec]

Re: So it's National Insurance then

There's an argument about whether it should NI, income tax or some other form of tax, but I don't see he had much choice - don't forget he was telling us he had a plan for social care before the pandemic was heard about.

As I see it not much has changed and the new arrangements are far from being a solution to the problem of long term care. The government's statement is all smoke and mirrors. Originally I thought the government had at least made a decision about future care but the bottom line is that even under the new arrangements, once savings are exhausted, houses will have to be sold to pay for the housing element of care for a single individual as well as for care itself. This of course pre-supposes that the house is not required to house a partner/spouse who is able to remain as that component is not included.

Many thanks to Carl Dale who has advanced my understanding of the situation.

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Re: So it's National Insurance then

Read earlier that someone was complaining that theyd be paying an extra £1300 a year.
Must be tough for them living off a salary of £100k

I'll be worse off by several thousand a year. I won't even notice it and neither will someone losing £1300 a year on a £100k salary. I'd pay more if it meant those earning less paid less.

If we have champagne tastes we can't expect to use beer money.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So it's National Insurance then

the point here is that the NICs paid by today's pensioners were based on life expectancy after retirement of 5 may be 10 years. We are now seeing pensioners live well into their 90s, meaning the cost of their pension is 3x what it was originally thought to be. You factor in social care and health care costs too and suddenly you appreciate today's pensioners have paid in nowhere near enough.

the issue is that pensioners forma huge voting block, and governments are scared of upsetting the block for fear of losing large swathes of votes.

something had to be done, although whether the way to finance it was the way chosen by this government is debatable.

I think this is sticking plaster

Pensioners tend to vote tory and read the daily mail

If there were tax rises across the board , which is needed to claw things back , then half the country would be up in arms

The tories have been in charge for 11 years now , they have to break out of this no tax increases nonsense

[Toadstool]

Re: So it's National Insurance then

Social care definitely needs sorting as it's been underfunded for ages, but NI in it's current form is the wrong way to fund it.
Someone earning £20k a year will now pay 6.9% of their salary on NI, going up to 10.7% at £50k - fair enough, but then it starts to go down, with £100k earners paying 7% and £130k earners 6.1%.
Income from share dividends, investments and property are exempt from NI too.
Should be income tax, not NI.

Dividend tax is also going up by 1.5% - so if like me you are a director of your own company I'll pay 1.5% extra NI as an employee, 1.5% extra as an employer and 1.5% extra for dividends.

My wife and I are both employees and directors fo in total thats 9%....

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Re: So it's National Insurance then

Because they have paid into the system for their WORKING lives.
It’ should be owed to them.
Their frugality or smart investments should go to what the **** they want.

say that with a straight face

[Rjk]

Re: So it's National Insurance then

they should raise inheritance tax. make it massive. close the loopholes that people avoid paying it.

many older people are sitting on huge property values that by mostly luck have increased incredibly while they've lived there. they've done nothing to create that increase it has just happened.
people inheriting that wealth have done nothing to earn it either other than be born to the right people

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So it's National Insurance then

LAs can stipulate that those tendering must meet certain obligations, such as a minimum level of pay. There is no reason why the LAs can't dictate the terms.

Well somethings not right because the carers in South Wales are all on 9 pound an hour

The private companies are making a killing on the backs of the vulnerable and the carers they employ

The council put the contracts out for care to care companies and those that get the work are the cheapest

That's the free market for you 😉

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So it's National Insurance then

Dividend tax is also going up by 1.5% - so if like me you are a director of your own company I'll pay 1.5% extra NI as an employee, 1.5% extra as an employer and 1.5% extra for dividends.

My wife and I are both employees and directors fo in total thats 9%....

Kin hell

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Re: So it's National Insurance then

I think this is sticking plaster

Pensioners tend to vote tory and read the daily mail

If there were tax rises across the board , which is needed to claw things back , then half the country would be up in arms

The tories have been in charge for 11 years now , they have to break out of this no tax increases nonsense

Sludge

this government is collecting more in tax than any government before it. We currently pay around 35% of GDP in taxation. The Tories are not a party of low taxes, a complete myth peddled by the party and its supporters.

People seem to be ignoring that employers will also pay an extra 1.25% NIER and shareholders will also pay an extra 1.25% on dividends.

The devil is in the detail, and if this was Labour announcing these tax rises and spend decisions, those on the left would be hailing it as revolutionary and much needed. which it is.

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Re: So it's National Insurance then

Dividend tax is also going up by 1.5% - so if like me you are a director of your own company I'll pay 1.5% extra NI as an employee, 1.5% extra as an employer and 1.5% extra for dividends.

My wife and I are both employees and directors fo in total thats 9%....

if you're a director of your own company neither you or the company will pay NICS, if you are you need a better accountant. you'll pay the extra 1.25% on divs though.

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Re: So it's National Insurance then

they should raise inheritance tax. make it massive. close the loopholes that people avoid paying it.

many older people are sitting on huge property values that by mostly luck have increased incredibly while they've lived there. they've done nothing to create that increase it has just happened.
people inheriting that wealth have done nothing to earn it either other than be born to the right people

inheritance tax is 40%, the second highest rate of tax after surtax on employment income.

why should the state take someone's house after they die?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: So it's National Insurance then

As I see it not much has changed and the new arrangements are far from being a solution to the problem of long term care. The government's statement is all smoke and mirrors. Originally I thought the government had at least made a decision about future care but the bottom line is that even under the new arrangements, once savings are exhausted, houses will have to be sold to pay for the housing element of care for a single individual as well as for care itself. This of course pre-supposes that the house is not required to house a partner/spouse who is able to remain as that component is not included.

Many thanks to Carl Dale who has advanced my understanding of the situation.

It's fair to say I wouldn't vote conservative if it were my last act on earth

However what have Labour and the liberals , together stronger .......suggested ?

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Re: So it's National Insurance then

Well somethings not right because the carers in South Wales are all on 9 pound an hour

The private companies are making a killing on the backs of the vulnerable and the carers they employ

The council put the contracts out for care to care companies and those that get the work are the cheapest

That's the free market for you ��

surely the council can state in the tender what the terms of engagement must be...the council hold all the aces, but they put out to tender for the lowest cost bidder.

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Re: So it's National Insurance then

Kin hell

its not 9% sludge, that's a little wide of the mark