The Donald Trump thread

[Mrs Steve R]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Mrs R is right. Go easy on WalesBales, Cyril.

Let's be honest, this thread has just turned in to a point scoring exercise from all sides.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Let's be honest, this thread has just turned in to a point scoring exercise from all sides.

Let's be honest, it's been that for most of its 208 pages hasn't it.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Let's be honest, this thread has just turned in to a point scoring exercise from all sides.

Let me tell you a little secret. Cyril is not aware of this, but we both begin at the same starting point. As an example, we both believed that Trump was colluding with Russia, and we both believed that Dr Fauci was a great guy who was handling the pandemic response by the book. The difference between the two of us, is that I modify my opinion if new sources of information become available, whereas Cyril is locked into the same opening argument every time. He lacks flexibility of thought which results in me whipping his ass every time. This makes Cyril frustrated, and all he can do is make snidey personal comments, and try to discredit me by posting random out of context snippets from previous posts. Cyril is an obsessive whack job, and sometimes he is really on the edge of what is normal. If you look at his posting history the majority of it is above me. He doesn't realise it, but I am not trying to win a popularity contest, I am just commenting about the truth as I see it. Unlike Cyril I have no agenda, and I do not feel the need to post propaganda on a football message board every day.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Er, yes if the options are Trump or China and the WHO - especially on the subject of COVID 19.

In that case, it would be very unfortunate if the WHO or China were shown to have been complicit in the spread of the virus that killed tens of thousands of people around the world, including many of the deaths that you were trying to pin directly on Trump. So let's hope that the current investigation exonerates them, and that you don't end up like lardy & cyril who have been caught trying to cover up the greatest political spying scandal in history.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

In that case, it would be very unfortunate if the WHO or China were shown to have been complicit in the spread of the virus that killed tens of thousands of people around the world, including many of the deaths that you were trying to pin directly on Trump. So let's hope that the current investigation exonerates them, and that you don't end up like lardy & cyril who have been caught trying to cover up the greatest political spying scandal in history.

Nah, it'd be alright, I'd just do what you do when you're in the wrong - go on about Russian collusion, while moving the goalposts and then add a smiley at the end.

[life on mars]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

So you're siding with the WHO and China on this?

This is worth a read its the WHO statements by date since Corvid 19 , there are some contradictions:

https://mol.im/a/8221607

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Nah, it'd be alright, I'd just do what you do when you're in the wrong - go on about Russian collusion, while moving the goalposts and then add a smiley at the end.

I'm still waiting very patiently to be proved wrong, and if that does ever happen, then I will modify my thinking and restate my new position. It's always been that way since day one.

BTW, Papadopoulos is innocent, Flynn is innocent, two people that you put the boot into when they were down, after they were both setup and framed. Your track record of failure is becoming very similar to lady & cyril, and being wrong about the WHO would put you in the same league. Of course, I will be praying that it never happens!

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

This is worth a read its the WHO statements by date since Corvid 19 , there are some contradictions:


https://mol.im/a/8221607

Too late, Bob's just gone all in and he's joined lardy & cyril alternative facts club. I tried to save him, but it is with great sadness that I have to announce that I failed

[life on mars]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Too late, Bob's just gone all in and he's joined lardy & cyril alternative facts club. I tried to save him, but it is with great sadness that I have to announce that I failed

M16 Chief states :

Sir John Sawers said that there were flaws in the WHO’s passive response

TOBY MELVILLE/GETTY IMAGES

Lucy Fisher, Defence Editor

Wednesday April 15 2020, 12.00pm, The Times

The World Health Organisation’s shortcomings should be looked at but China was not taking responsibility for its failures on coronavirus, a former MI6 chief has said.

Sir John Sawers, 64, spoke out after President Trump last night halted American funding for the WHO and accused it of “severely mismanaging and covering up” the initial outbreak of Covid-19 in Hubei province, China.

Mr Trump said that the United Nations agency “willingly took China’s assurances at face value” about the transmission of the virus and “pushed China’s misinformation”.

Sir John, who was Britain’s permanent representative at the UN before he led MI6 between 2009 and 2014, acknowledged flaws in the WHO’s passive response to China’s disinformation campaign. He said, though, that criticism should be focused on Xi*Jinping’s administration.

“There’s deep anger in America over what they see as having been inflicted on us all by China, and China is evading a good deal of responsibility for the origin of the virus, for failing to deal with it initially,” he told BBC Radio 4’s*Today*programme.

“It would be better to hold China responsible for those issues rather than the World Health Organisation. The WHO is only as good as its member states, like all UN agencies.”

He added: “China’s role in the United Nations has steadily grown as China’s power has grown. Heads of UN agencies are wary of offending one of the major powers, but that does not excuse the head of the WHO for failing to stand up for the facts and the data and making the right demands of the Chinese.

“I think the WHO has got serious questions to answer about its performance, but actually anger should be directed against China rather than against the UN agencies.”

Sir John emphasised that the West must co-operate with Beijing to curb the pandemic. “We can’t find a way out of this without working with China,” he said.

Tom Tugendhat, Conservative chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, expressed wariness over Mr Trump’s decision to pull funding from the WHO but acknowledged his frustrations.

“I’m concerned by this. This is of course an important time for the WHO to be doing its job,” he told Sky News this morning.

“I understand his concerns with the way that the WHO has failed to call out China or indeed recognise the success that has been going on in Taiwan among other places.”

Simon Coveney, Ireland’s foreign minister, took a more hardline approach against Mr Trump’s decision. “This is [an] indefensible decision, in midst of global pandemic,” he said on Twitter. “So many vulnerable populations rely on WHO — deliberately undermining funding & trust now is shocking. Now is a time for global leadership & unity to save lives, not division and blame!”.

Last year the United States provided more than a twelfth of the organisation’s $6 billion funding, making it the biggest contributor.

Senior scientists based in Britain warned that Mr Trump’s move was likely to have damaging consequences.

Michael Head, senior research fellow in global health at the University of Southampton, said his institution’s analysis showed that more than 75 per cent of global funding on coronavirus research had been contributed by American-based funders so far, highlighting the strong influence of the US on global health.

“The WHO role is more taking new knowledge from research and creating policy, guidance and surveillance,” he said. “But if the USA acts provocatively over global health and biosecurity, it will become a very big problem. The effects would be seen worldwide, but also rebounding back o nto the USA where high-threat pathogens would be more likely to occur in future.”

Tedros Ghebreyesus, the WHO’s director-general, had urged Mr Trump against politicising the pandemic and said that such a move risked “many more bodybags” when the US president hinted at halting funding earlier this month.

China claimed this week that it had secured a guarantee from Dominic Raab that the UK would not engage in “politicising” the outbreak.

The foreign secretary was also said to have “fully agreed” with Chinese foreign minister, Wang Yi, during a recent phone call that the source of the virus required “assessment”, according to a statement published by the Chinese Embassy in London.

Yesterday Lord Hague of Richmond, the former Conservative Party leader and foreign secretary, conceded that the West “don’t have that much of a stick” with which to punish China for its behaviour.

“Can any of us see China agreeing to and permitting an international investigation into what’s happened here? I think that’s very unlikely and there have been coordinated attempts by China, on social media, to spread ideas that it was somebody else’s fault, including the fault of the United States,” he said.

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

M16 Chief states :

Sir John Sawers said that there were flaws in the WHO’s passive response

TOBY MELVILLE/GETTY IMAGES

Lucy Fisher, Defence Editor

Wednesday April 15 2020, 12.00pm, The Times

The World Health Organisation’s shortcomings should be looked at but China was not taking responsibility for its failures on coronavirus, a former MI6 chief has said.

Sir John Sawers, 64, spoke out after President Trump last night halted American funding for the WHO and accused it of “severely mismanaging and covering up” the initial outbreak of Covid-19 in Hubei province, China.

Mr Trump said that the United Nations agency “willingly took China’s assurances at face value” about the transmission of the virus and “pushed China’s misinformation”.

Sir John, who was Britain’s permanent representative at the UN before he led MI6 between 2009 and 2014, acknowledged flaws in the WHO’s passive response to China’s disinformation campaign. He said, though, that criticism should be focused on Xi*Jinping’s administration.

“There’s deep anger in America over what they see as having been inflicted on us all by China, and China is evading a good deal of responsibility for the origin of the virus, for failing to deal with it initially,” he told BBC Radio 4’s*Today*programme.

“It would be better to hold China responsible for those issues rather than the World Health Organisation. The WHO is only as good as its member states, like all UN agencies.”

He added: “China’s role in the United Nations has steadily grown as China’s power has grown. Heads of UN agencies are wary of offending one of the major powers, but that does not excuse the head of the WHO for failing to stand up for the facts and the data and making the right demands of the Chinese.

“I think the WHO has got serious questions to answer about its performance, but actually anger should be directed against China rather than against the UN agencies.”

Sir John emphasised that the West must co-operate with Beijing to curb the pandemic. “We can’t find a way out of this without working with China,” he said.

Tom Tugendhat, Conservative chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee, expressed wariness over Mr Trump’s decision to pull funding from the WHO but acknowledged his frustrations.

“I’m concerned by this. This is of course an important time for the WHO to be doing its job,” he told Sky News this morning.

“I understand his concerns with the way that the WHO has failed to call out China or indeed recognise the success that has been going on in Taiwan among other places.”

Simon Coveney, Ireland’s foreign minister, took a more hardline approach against Mr Trump’s decision. “This is [an] indefensible decision, in midst of global pandemic,” he said on Twitter. “So many vulnerable populations rely on WHO — deliberately undermining funding & trust now is shocking. Now is a time for global leadership & unity to save lives, not division and blame!”.

Last year the United States provided more than a twelfth of the organisation’s $6 billion funding, making it the biggest contributor.

Senior scientists based in Britain warned that Mr Trump’s move was likely to have damaging consequences.

Michael Head, senior research fellow in global health at the University of Southampton, said his institution’s analysis showed that more than 75 per cent of global funding on coronavirus research had been contributed by American-based funders so far, highlighting the strong influence of the US on global health.

“The WHO role is more taking new knowledge from research and creating policy, guidance and surveillance,” he said. “But if the USA acts provocatively over global health and biosecurity, it will become a very big problem. The effects would be seen worldwide, but also rebounding back o nto the USA where high-threat pathogens would be more likely to occur in future.”

Tedros Ghebreyesus, the WHO’s director-general, had urged Mr Trump against politicising the pandemic and said that such a move risked “many more bodybags” when the US president hinted at halting funding earlier this month.

China claimed this week that it had secured a guarantee from Dominic Raab that the UK would not engage in “politicising” the outbreak.

The foreign secretary was also said to have “fully agreed” with Chinese foreign minister, Wang Yi, during a recent phone call that the source of the virus required “assessment”, according to a statement published by the Chinese Embassy in London.

Yesterday Lord Hague of Richmond, the former Conservative Party leader and foreign secretary, conceded that the West “don’t have that much of a stick” with which to punish China for its behaviour.

“Can any of us see China agreeing to and permitting an international investigation into what’s happened here? I think that’s very unlikely and there have been coordinated attempts by China, on social media, to spread ideas that it was somebody else’s fault, including the fault of the United States,” he said.

It's only Day One, and it's already looking like very bad news for Bob! Will he be smart and change tact, or is it going another lary & cyril type hole digging exercise?

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

It's only Day One, and it's already looking like very bad news for Bob! Will he be smart and change tact, or is it going another lary & cyril type hole digging exercise?

Which bit about the WHO in that article furthers your #13 latest narrative? If only it were Day 1 I suppose then you could wipe the other 12 zig-zagging and contradictory positions from the CCMB memory banks

[Heisenberg]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 24, 2020

February 24th 2020

[Wales-Bales]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Which bit about the WHO in that article furthers your #13 latest narrative? If only it were Day 1 I suppose then you could wipe the other 12 zig-zagging and contradictory positions from the CCMB memory banks

Day 1 of a new chapter where TDS made Bob jump into the arms of China, and Organ tossed out a theory about plandemics, so thats two things to keep an eye on going forward.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The Donald Trump thread

Day 1 of a new chapter where TDS made Bob jump into the arms of China, and Organ tossed out a theory about plandemics, so thats two things to keep an eye on going forward.

So predictable that within a few hours of me saying that China and the WHO carry more authority on the subject of the virus than Trump, you had turned it into I'd jumped into the arms of China! So, maybe I should remind that I have more often than not qualified anything I've said about China with something about their untrustworthiness. There seems no doubt that China deliberately understated the severity of the virus' impact in its early days and also weren't fully truthful about when it first appeared. However, it must surely be accepted that China are among a small number of countries who can genuinely claim to have come through the first phase of infection currently and, as the biggest of them, represent the best precedent we have at the moment - it's not ideal, but that's the way things are for now.
On the other hand, over the last three months or so, Trump, so, by implication you also, has been like one of those Olympic sailors who are well down the field in their race and are forced to zig zag desperately across the water trying to find a helpful wind that will enable them to make up some of the ground they've lost.
Don't take these dates literally, I'm just using them as a way of Emphasising a point - I may well have agreed with something Trump said, on say, 23 February, but disagreed profoundly with what he said on 9 March because he/ been all over the place on COVID 19 and I really would have to doubt the mental stability of someone who faithfully backed him up on everything he's said on the subject.
I'm not sure even you have done that, but Cyril has, very effectively, encapsulated your ever changing views on the virus by simply listing them (I may be wrong, but I think there were fifteen items on said list at the last count) and he's been equally effective in listing the personal insults you've fired back at him in a sure sigh that you were losing the argument - you've been made to oook foolish in the last few weeks because you, like Trump, have constantly tried to manoeuvre the facts into supporting your agenda.