Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

[JamesWales]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

But this is precisely what I am saying, no analysis. Just you sticking your finger in the air and coming up with a convenient conclusion. There was analysis produced to show the forecast economic and social impact of hs2, you might not think there are benefits in faster connections between cities but smarter people with better methodologies did . Rishi has seemingly announced a load of projects and told everybody how much taxpayer cash will be assigned to each without the necessary checks/balances or consulting local people.

It is the same old story that was clear in your defense of Rwanda and the barge contract, you have no regarded for effective spending of taxpayer money or due process. I have a feeling that in 18 months if we have a different party in government, this might change...

Do you think this decision was made with no analysis do you? I somehow doubt that. That's not how transport infrastructure spending decisions happen.

[JamesWales]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

****in hell, the irony.

You are the equivalent of a battered spouse of the Tory party. They have proven themselves to be bullshitters time and time again when announcing grand infrastructure projects and yet you keep on believing.

I think you need to take a step back here tbh.

I just think that using HS2 funding to fund more localised projects; things like the North Wales electrification, improved transport between Liverpool and Manchester etc is a better use of the money.

That's a pretty common and pretty justifiable belief to be honest and the fact your response to it is to post stuff like the above says far more about you than it does me.

Ive never thought HS2 was the best use of transport spending. I've known a couple of people who have worked on it and it has always struck me as a monumental gravy train (no pun intended) that wasn't the best use of resources. I've always thought that, so it's no surprise I will think it's a good idea they are reallocating resources is it?!

I wholly support the south Wales Metro btw. That's a WG project.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

I think you need to take a step back here tbh.

I just think that using HS2 funding to fund more localised projects; things like the North Wales electrification, improved transport between Liverpool and Manchester etc is a better use of the money.

That's a pretty common and pretty justifiable belief to be honest and the fact your response to it is to post stuff like the above says far more about you than it does me.

Ive never thought HS2 was the best use of transport spending. I've known a couple of people who have worked on it and it has always struck me as a monumental gravy train (no pun intended) that wasn't the best use of resources. I've always thought that, so it's no surprise I will think it's a good idea they are reallocating resources is it?!

I wholly support the south Wales Metro btw. That's a WG project.

You keep saying the same thing 'better use of the money' as if a) government spending is like household spending, either/or approach, b) these new projects won't suffer exactly the same waste/overspend and c) they will actually bloody build them and d) analysis to show their superior economic/social benefit exists.

Why not build hs2/3/4/5 and these other projects?

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

Rishi has seemingly announced a load of projects and told everybody how much taxpayer cash will be assigned to each without the necessary checks/balances or consulting local people.

...

Apparently the £36bn will be allocated across the nation. Let's hope Sunak's favourite area of deprivation gets levelled up as a result. Tunbridge Wells could do with a shiny new station and by-pass😂

[JamesWales]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

You keep saying the same thing 'better use of the money' as if a) government spending is like household spending, either/or approach, b) these new projects won't suffer exactly the same waste/overspend and c) they will actually bloody build them and d) analysis to show their superior economic/social benefit exists.

Why not build hs2/3/4/5 and these other projects?

Yes Eric. I think there is a better use of the money. That's it. It's not hard to comprehend. Some people would advocate spending everything on one big project, others on several smaller ones.

It goes without saying that the problems in terms of finding and delivering any proposed new ones will still exist of course.

[ninian opinian]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

Roads minister Richard Holden stated Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

Henri Murison, CE of Northern Powerhouse Partnership says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.

It’s unravelling already, bloody clowns!

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

Yes Eric. I think there is a better use of the money. That's it. It's not hard to comprehend. Some people would advocate spending everything on one big project, others on several smaller ones.

It goes without saying that the problems in terms of finding and delivering any proposed new ones will still exist of course.

Pull the curtain back and there is nothing in there.

I'll try once again...

Better use of money based on what? The brain is essentially a big calculator, what variables is your brain using to decide that it is better use of money?

As far as I'm aware the government haven't published any analysis to show the financial impact so we have nothing concrete to compare hs2 with.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

After just 24 hours, the government has dropped its commitment to reopen the Leamside Line. It was included yesterday in the initial Network North announcements, now it’s gone.

Roads minister Richard Holden stated Govt is now just ‘committed to looking into it’.

Henri Murison, CE of Northern Powerhouse Partnership says this announcement makes the entirety of Network North a ‘fairytale’.

It’s unravelling already, bloody clowns!

Next you will be telling me there isn't going to be 40 new hospitals, I just refuse to believe they have lied.

[ninian opinian]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

Next you will be telling me there isn't going to be 40 new hospitals, I just refuse to believe they have lied.

Wait there’s more

Yesterday the government pledged to deliver: "A259 from Bognor Regis to Southampton"

Today Mark Harper tweeted graphics showing they actually meant Littlehampton...45 miles away.

And

“Govt has pledged to extend the Metrolink network in Manchester towards the Airport - despite the fact it was built 9 years ago”

And

They also want to build a tram line to Clifton South in Nottingham that was done 8 years ago

CLOWNS!

[JamesWales]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

Pull the curtain back and there is nothing in there.

I'll try once again...

Better use of money based on what? The brain is essentially a big calculator, what variables is your brain using to decide that it is better use of money?

As far as I'm aware the government haven't published any analysis to show the financial impact so we have nothing concrete to compare hs2 with.

Do you realise how unbelievably patronising you sound?

If the analysis hasn't been made (and I have no reason to believe you on that) then how are you in a position to judge either?

We all have opinions on govt expenditure and the best use of it. I would suggest that using all the funding on getting between two cities quicker is not the best use of that, and greater investment in connecting people to and within their own and neighbouring cities would produce better economic and social incomes.

The approach you suggest is what has led to more investment in the southeast in recent decades as it produces better economic outcomes..on paper at least.

[JamesWales]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

Wait there’s more

Yesterday the government pledged to deliver: "A259 from Bognor Regis to Southampton"

Today Mark Harper tweeted graphics showing they actually meant Littlehampton...45 miles away.

And

“Govt has pledged to extend the Metrolink network in Manchester towards the Airport - despite the fact it was built 9 years ago”

And

They also want to build a tram line to Clifton South in Nottingham that was done 8 years ago

CLOWNS!

Someone follows Louise Haigh on twitter..

[ninian opinian]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

Someone follows Louise Haigh on twitter..

Is that the best you’ve got

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

Wait there’s more

Yesterday the government pledged to deliver: "A259 from Bognor Regis to Southampton"

Today Mark Harper tweeted graphics showing they actually meant Littlehampton...45 miles away.

And

“Govt has pledged to extend the Metrolink network in Manchester towards the Airport - despite the fact it was built 9 years ago”

And

They also want to build a tram line to Clifton South in Nottingham that was done 8 years ago

CLOWNS!

'HS2 will not go to Euston without private funds'

After announcing it would yesterday. This is surely record timing for plans unravelling.

At least Rishi can still rely on 'some people here present' to blindly believe his next round of lies.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

Do you realise how unbelievably patronising you sound?

If the analysis hasn't been made (and I have no reason to believe you on that) then how are you in a position to judge either?

We all have opinions on govt expenditure and the best use of it. I would suggest that using all the funding on getting between two cities quicker is not the best use of that, and greater investment in connecting people to and within their own and neighbouring cities would produce better economic and social incomes.

The approach you suggest is what has led to more investment in the southeast in recent decades as it produces better economic outcomes..on paper at least.

Wrong. The South East isn't connected, it's connected to London. Source - I live here

It's actually one of the main criticism of living in the home counties, you can get into London in 20/30 mins on fast trains but its so much difficult to travel horizontally.

[JamesWales]

Re: Revised HS2 Is the government right or wrong?

Wrong. The South East isn't connected, it's connected to London. Source - I live here

It's actually one of the main criticism of living in the home counties, you can get into London in 20/30 mins on fast trains but its so much difficult to travel horizontally.

I didn't say the southeast was connected, I said a purely economic analysis of the projects is what has led to greater investment in the southeast in recent years. Not just in terms of transport infrastructure, but that does trump expenditure elsewhere.