NHS Expenditure

[Eric Cartman]

Re: NHS Expenditure

I was listening to a radio call in show the other day. The caller was unable to get a face to face appointment with his usual G.P , so went private.

His private doctor was his same NHS doctor he couldn’t see

Is that just an observation or is it supposed to be an argument against/in favour of further privatisation?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: NHS Expenditure

Yes way to big to fund in this modern world I note Wesley Paul William Streeting was saying this morning that the best position NHS was under Blair , perhaps as Labour move to a Tory Lite movement they may embrace Blair's private health care support as a solution .

quote from 2006 :

"Tony Blair today welcomed 11 private healthcare providers into the "NHS family", as he promised them the chance to gain a stronger foothold in the NHS.

Predicting that the private sector would soon provide up to 40% of NHS operations, Mr Blair said the independent providers could help drive up the quality of service to patients which he said was the "most important thing".

"By 2008 we could have as much as 40% of acute operations done in the private sector being done under the NHS banner," he told health bosses.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics

Labour calling Tories a nasty tax raiser to pay for NHS seems like a changing of the guard ?

Starting to sound like a broken record, 'unfundable' doesn't mean anything. You still haven't explained how you reduce demand or increase efficiency (without increasing total spend).

The only figure that matters here is real terms spend per head and not one person in this thread has posted or even referred it.

[TWGL1]

Re: NHS Expenditure

Is that just an observation or is it supposed to be an argument against/in favour of further privatisation?

An observation, however I’m led to believe lots of practices are private and receive a NHS grant.

[Doucas]

Re: NHS Expenditure

Yes way to big to fund in this modern world I note Wesley Paul William Streeting was saying this morning that the best position NHS was under Blair , perhaps as Labour move to a Tory Lite movement they may embrace Blair's private health care support as a solution .

quote from 2006 :

"Tony Blair today welcomed 11 private healthcare providers into the "NHS family", as he promised them the chance to gain a stronger foothold in the NHS.

Predicting that the private sector would soon provide up to 40% of NHS operations, Mr Blair said the independent providers could help drive up the quality of service to patients which he said was the "most important thing".

"By 2008 we could have as much as 40% of acute operations done in the private sector being done under the NHS banner," he told health bosses.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics

Labour calling Tories a nasty tax raiser to pay for NHS seems like a changing of the guard ?

Privatisation of the NHS is such a stupid idea. We have more privitisation than ever yet our waiting times are longer than ever, weird that.

Also take a look at the wonderful world that is privatised healthcare in the USA, these are rough figures but they spend something like 2.5 - 3x on healthcare per person, for worse outcomes with about 70 million people who can't access healthcare. It's also the biggest cause of bankruptcy in the USA.

How people have been convinced privitisation = more efficiency I'll never ever understand. I wonder if it could be the 40 years of billionaire owned newspapers convincing the British public this is the case so that their mates can be made richer. Also don't forget that often when we privatise things we're selling it to foreign governments.

This line of thought is incredible and shows why the country is in the sad state it's in today.

[Raymond Holt]

Re: NHS Expenditure

I thought you would pop up…..

The NHS spends Russia’s entirely military budget once every 100 days.

If the NHS was a military, it would have the 3rd highest funding in the world, only surpassed by the US and China’s militaries.

For reference I asked a question, it’s not necessary my opinion.

You could have a similar thread on corporations

Wouldn't it be great if all countries' health services were better funded than all of those militaries! Just goes to show much the world spends on killing people.

[TWGL1]

Re: NHS Expenditure

Wouldn't it be great if all countries' health services were better funded than all of those militaries! Just goes to show much the world spends on killing people.

A large military budget is a good way to recycle cash

[life on mars]

Re: NHS Expenditure

I was listening to a radio call in show the other day. The caller was unable to get a face to face appointment with his usual G.P , so went private.

His private doctor was his same NHS doctor he couldn’t see

Id like all those GP 's back in the national Heath service as one of my reforms .

Payment at GP walk in as per dentist ( means tested of course ) if the complaint is found to not needing a further hospital appointments

Merge fire brigades with Ambulance crews .

Large GP at units at Hospitals.

charge for any cosmetic or minor issues like ear wax

More depth of cover on weekends at GP and A/E has to be a 7 day service now including things like x ray appointments.

Move to greater NHS App use for appointment making , updates .

Charges raised for A&E arrivals due to self responsibility ie drunkenness , fighting .

Priority A& E units away for the drunks for real emergencies

Motorist found guilty of dangerous driving levied an emergency call out service fine on top of the normal court one.

[Doucas]

Re: NHS Expenditure

Anyone going to address my point about american healthcare costing 2.5x - 3x per person for worse outcomes and 70 million people not being able to access it?

It's incredible that people here are advocating for privatised healthcare, honestly future generations in addition to millenials and Gen Z are going to look at this time period and wonder what the hell older people were thinking. You seem hell bent on selling every asset the UK has.

[Doucas]

Re: NHS Expenditure

The entire inflation-adjusted budget of the Marshall Plan- which rebuilt Europe after WWII- is spent by the NHS once every 7 months.

With around 6 Million on the current waiting list , is this considered value for money ?

What's your solution? Priviatise it and ensure 1/3 of the country can access no form of healthcare? If you get cancer, tough you lose your home?

The NHS is one of the few good things in the UK and people like you would sell it for magic beans if you had the chance. Our population is getting older so of course more needs to be spent on the NHS, we need to adapt our tax accordingly.

According to many right wingers I've spoken to the more billionaires in a country the better off it is. Well we have more billionaires than ever but we seem to be struggling in every single area. Strange that.

We continue to avoid doing the incredibly obvious solution in taxing the mega wealthy more. Until that happens we will continue to see all the problems we're currently seeing.

[JamesWales]

Re: NHS Expenditure

What's your solution? Priviatise it and ensure 1/3 of the country can access no form of healthcare? If you get cancer, tough you lose your home?

The NHS is one of the few good things in the UK and people like you would sell it for magic beans if you had the chance. Our population is getting older so of course more needs to be spent on the NHS, we need to adapt our tax accordingly.

According to many right wingers I've spoken to the more billionaires in a country the better off it is. Well we have more billionaires than ever but we seem to be struggling in every single area. Strange that.

We continue to avoid doing the incredibly obvious solution in taxing the mega wealthy more. Until that happens we will continue to see all the problems we're currently seeing.

Although I believe in a publicly funded health service, you do cite rather radical examples of private healthcare.

The point of the NHS is that it's free at the point of use. Some services could be provided privately and it doesnt change that, the same way that contracted out waste collection doesnt mean you are charged extra for bin collection. Also, there are more examples than just the US and the UK, which are two extreme examples really.

As long as it's free at the point of use, I dont greatly care if some services are provided by the private sector tbh, if it improves service

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: NHS Expenditure

Although I believe in a publicly funded health service, you do cite rather radical examples of private healthcare.

The point of the NHS is that it's free at the point of use. Some services could be provided privately and it doesnt change that, the same way that contracted out waste collection doesnt mean you are charged extra for bin collection. Also, there are more examples than just the US and the UK, which are two extreme examples really.

As long as it's free at the point of use, I dont greatly care if some services are provided by the private sector tbh, if it improves service

Yeah but remember the NHS is unfundable and too big. So regardless if it is a public or private service provider:

Bringing more GPs back into the NHS, positioning them in hospitals rather than close to local need, turning GPs and A and E including x-ray into a genuine 24/7 service, getting hospital staff to triage whether someone involved in a fight is a victim or an assailant and having multi-skilled paramedic firefighters has to be part of the solution, right?

[life on mars]

Re: NHS Expenditure

Comparing health care systems in Europe is often oversimplified and you often get politcial point scoring statements like ooh the German healthcare is the best , before you do that you have to understand what is free at the point of access , what is free and how much do employees have to top up to gain full access to all treatments , I'd put money on the NHS being the most generous for it all being free at the point of access, for all .

Sitting on our hands and not thinking of different ways of working and new solutions ,will help everyone as the NHS is too big and broken.

[life on mars]

Re: NHS Expenditure

What did Bevan say he was doing at the start of the NHS?

Bevan's stated ambition was to build a health service based on four principles: one that is free at the point of use, available to everyone who needed it, paid for out of general taxation and used responsibly.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: NHS Expenditure

Comparing health care systems in Europe is often oversimplified and you often get politcial point scoring statements like ooh the German healthcare is the best , before you do that you have to understand what is free at the point of access , what is free and how much do employees have to top up to gain full access to all treatments , I'd put money on the NHS being the most generous for it all being free at the point of access, for all .

Sitting on our hands and not thinking of different ways of working and new solutions ,will help everyone as the NHS is too big and broken.

Have you carried out an analysis that so many others have failed to do or are you putting your money on the NHS being the most generous health service on the basis of a hunch?