Scottish Independence vote..

[JamesWales]

Here we go again..

Thoughts? Pro's? Con's?

[Doucas]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

One of the key reasons Scotland voted to remain in the UK was so there wasn't a risk of them leaving the EU. They've been dragged out against their will so can't blame them for wanting another vote.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Ideal timing for the SNP. Never in recent decades has there been so much dissatisfaction with Westminster and it should be all to their advantage.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

I have family in Scotland. Some pro indy, some not.

It strikes me as very similar to brexit, very little strength to the economic case, mostly ideologically driven and flag waving. The argument for freedom/self-governance is probably stronger than brexit however given the greater control Westminster has over Scotland.

This is probably their window though. They would have absolutely no chance of winning a vote under a non-tory UK government.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

I have family in Scotland. Some pro indy, some not.

It strikes me as very similar to brexit, very little strength to the economic case, mostly ideologically driven and flag waving. The argument for freedom/self-governance is probably stronger than brexit however given the greater control Westminster has over Scotland.

This is probably their window though. They would have absolutely no chance of winning a vote under a non-tory UK government.

Considering that the Conservatives secured more seats than the Labour party in the 2021 Scottish election, I'm not sure.
It doesn't indicate any great enthusiasm for the Labour party.

[Dorcus]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

I think it's marvelous. Brexit has been predicted to be the catalyst for the break up of the UK. Why on Earth didn't Wales follow our Celtic cousins in voting against it instead of supporting the little Englander mentality?

[Pilkers]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Good luck to them if they leave. Thou I reckon reunification in Ireland will come first. Bunglecnuts latest ruse to trash the protocol goes against the wishes of the majority and panders to an ever declining troop of crackpot dup/tuv bigots. He's even managed to pee off the moderate alliance vote. Which could be a disaster for the union, if they and their base embrace unity then it's game over.

[Dorcus]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Good luck to them if they leave. Thou I reckon reunification in Ireland will come first. Bunglecnuts latest ruse to trash the protocol goes against the wishes of the majority and panders to an ever declining troop of crackpot dup/tuv bigots. He's even managed to pee off the moderate alliance vote. Which could be a disaster for the union, if they and their base embrace unity then it's game over.

Good post, spot on.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

I've got to the point where I think we should just let them get on with it but leaving the union must mean exactly that, with all the ramifications that that will entail.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Considering that the Conservatives secured more seats than the Labour party in the 2021 Scottish election, I'm not sure.
It doesn't indicate any great enthusiasm for the Labour party.

Yeah but if we were talking second preference by SNP voters then labour destroys the Tories. There is a clear majority for a centre left government in Scotland and if they get that in Westminster then the floaters in any independence vote wouldn't need risk voting yes.

Funnily enough, probably the best way to win back seats in Scotland from the SNP is a LAB/SNP coalition where the SNP bargain for a vote and independence loses. That would end the argument for a good while but would be a massive risk for Labour.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Yeah but if we were talking second preference by SNP voters then labour destroys the Tories. There is a clear majority for a centre left government in Scotland and if they get that in Westminster then the floaters in any independence vote wouldn't need risk voting yes.

Funnily enough, probably the best way to win back seats in Scotland from the SNP is a LAB/SNP coalition where the SNP bargain for a vote and independence loses. That would end the argument for a good while but would be a massive risk for Labour.

The question of independence will be decided on by a referendum rather than by the number of seats secured in the Scottish parliament though.

[JamesWales]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

I think it's marvelous. Brexit has been predicted to be the catalyst for the break up of the UK. Why on Earth didn't Wales follow our Celtic cousins in voting against it instead of supporting the little Englander mentality?

Because that's not what Brexit was ever about, which you should know by now given it's been 6 years.

I won't point out the irony of you supporting someone leaving a union whilst also bemoaning others for wanting to leave a union..

[Rjk]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Because that's not what Brexit was ever about, which you should know by now given it's been 6 years.

I won't point out the irony of you supporting someone leaving a union whilst also bemoaning others for wanting to leave a union..

That's not irony - are you sure you know what it means?

There is no contradiction here either, it is perfectly reasonable to think that one union is beneficial to you and another not or no longer is.

Nobody is saying that there is "irony" in Ukraine wanting to leave the USSR and later wanting to join the EU?

[JamesWales]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

That's not irony - are you sure you know what it means?

There is no contradiction here either, it is perfectly reasonable to think that one union is beneficial to you and another not or no longer is.

Nobody is saying that there is "irony" in Ukraine wanting to leave the USSR and later wanting to join the EU?

Another of your absurd comparisons. Which one is the UK in this? The USSR? It's true of course, unions differ, but it doesn't make the situation without irony as nearly every argument that Scotland will use to leave the UK will be a reversal of those used to remain in the EU. Sturgeons words will be used against her.

If you can't see any irony here, thats up to you I guess. (The irony goes both ways btw, including for those arguing we are stronger together as the UK, but advocating more political freedom by leaving the EU)

[Rjk]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Another of your absurd comparisons. Which one is the UK in this? The USSR? It's true of course, unions differ, but it doesn't make the situation without irony as nearly every argument that Scotland will use to leave the UK will be a reversal of those used to remain in the EU. Sturgeons words will be used against her.

If you can't see any irony here, thats up to you I guess. (The irony goes both ways btw, including for those arguing we are stronger together as the UK, but advocating more political freedom by leaving the EU)

I'm not comparing anyone to the USSR, I'm merely pointing out it is perfectly possible to want to be in one union and not in another, there doesn't have to be any contradiction, if you feel one is beneficial to you and one is not.