Scottish Independence vote..

[JamesWales]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

I'm not comparing anyone to the USSR, I'm merely pointing out it is perfectly possible to want to be in one union and not in another, there doesn't have to be any contradiction, if you feel one is beneficial to you and one is not.

Yes, I understand that well. But there is also an irony on both sides, as many, if not all, of the arguments being made will be reversed.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

The question of independence will be decided on by a referendum rather than by the number of seats secured in the Scottish parliament though.

Thanks captain obvious. The 'we don't want to be ruled by Westminster' sentiment, that some people who might vote for independence have, changes based on how well Westminster aligns with their political views.

Obviously as I said above, the core vote for independence is ideological, but this core vote isn't large enough to win on its own.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Thanks captain obvious. The 'we don't want to be ruled by Westminster' sentiment, that some people who might vote for independence have, changes based on how well Westminster aligns with their political views.

Obviously as I said above, the core vote for independence is ideological, but this core vote isn't large enough to win on its own.

Thanks for the epithet. A tad unnecessary perhaps.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Thanks for the epithet. A tad unnecessary perhaps.

Unnecessary like telling me that a referendum will decide whether they go independent or not?

[life on mars]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Here we go again..

Thoughts? Pro's? Con's?

She has not other policy and its masks there appalling drugs , education and health problems , read up on the Scottish ferry issue, the only thing keeping her in power the hatred of the English .

Let them go and deal with their budget deficits ,last year was 36.3 billion British pounds, that was with 12 billion extra for Covid , there was a 15.8 billion pounds the previous year,


Gosh nationalism ??

How did Labour let this happen ( Blair devolution perhaps ) the party was born there and ruled it ,not liked now though why ??

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Unnecessary like telling me that a referendum will decide whether they go independent or not?

Well that is what the thread is all about and I didn't make a personal remark.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Well that is what the thread is all about and I didn't make a personal remark.

Does it really bother you that much if someone calls you a pretty non offensive name?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Does it really bother you that much if someone calls you a pretty non offensive name?

It doesn't upset me unduly. I just like to keep exchanges civil.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

She has not other policy and its masks there appalling drugs , education and health problems , read up on the Scottish ferry issue, the only thing keeping her in power the hatred of the English .

Let them go and deal with their budget deficits ,last year was 36.3 billion British pounds, that was with 12 billion extra for Covid , there was a 15.8 billion pounds the previous year,


Gosh nationalism ??

How did Labour let this happen ( Blair devolution perhaps ) the party was born there and ruled it ,not liked now though why ??

I don't know how much time you spend in Scotland but from my experience having spent about 150 days there in the last 10 years, I have never seen any hatred directed towards English people (and from my accent I would be assumed to be entirely English stock).

My sister has lived there for 17 years and has had the odd sour experience but nothing major. My parents moved up recently and have seen/felt nothing at all.

You are the first to jump in when someone says brexit was caused by a 'hatred of foreigners' so it seems a bit hypocritical to peddle this.

[Doucas]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

She has not other policy and its masks there appalling drugs , education and health problems , read up on the Scottish ferry issue, the only thing keeping her in power the hatred of the English .

Let them go and deal with their budget deficits ,last year was 36.3 billion British pounds, that was with 12 billion extra for Covid , there was a 15.8 billion pounds the previous year,


Gosh nationalism ??

How did Labour let this happen ( Blair devolution perhaps ) the party was born there and ruled it ,not liked now though why ??

Have you not seen the British deficit/debt?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

It doesn't upset me unduly. I just like to keep exchanges civil.

Oh well I don't, there is the problem then.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Oh well I don't, there is the problem then.

Fair dinkum, old fruit. We can agree to disagree :thumbup:

[JamesWales]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

I’m open minded on it all.

In practice, I think not one of Scotlands problems is caused by Westminster and Scotland has a huge range of powers as it is. They also have considerable tax raising powers, so whilst they don’t control the benefits system, she could raise income tax and halve council tax, or give a payout to all lower income households etc. The SNP know this, but they choose to blame Westminster for nearly everything anyway, rarely with much basis in the truth.

Their record, as I understand it, is mixed, which is fair enough. I am never one to think the Tories, Labour or SNP or anyone else are all bad or all good and there are many competent SNP politicians and councils.

I dislike nationalism on principle, but I think it’s fair enough that if someone feels Scottish only, they may want independence. But equally, many feel Scottish and British and that creates an identity angle to it all that can’t be wished away. That’s the ‘heart’ side of the argument.

I would vote to stay in the UK, mainly because I think Scotland has a good deal. It pays in less than it receives and would have to grapple with a huge budget deficit and lenders would be less inclined to plug that gap than they would with the UK. I think they would enter a period of significant austerity.

That said, it would open opportunities to out compete the UK and Scotland is a significant financial centre in it’s own right. Also, on things like energy it would be a very considerable mass exporter, albeit having had to compensate the UK for their infrastructure first.

On balance I’m pro devotion, but opposed to independence so I hope they vote No.

[Dorcus]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

I’m open minded on it all.

In practice, I think not one of Scotlands problems is caused by Westminster and Scotland has a huge range of powers as it is. They also have considerable tax raising powers, so whilst they don’t control the benefits system, she could raise income tax and halve council tax, or give a payout to all lower income households etc. The SNP know this, but they choose to blame Westminster for nearly everything anyway, rarely with much basis in the truth.

Their record, as I understand it, is mixed, which is fair enough. I am never one to think the Tories, Labour or SNP or anyone else are all bad or all good and there are many competent SNP politicians and councils.

I dislike nationalism on principle, but I think it’s fair enough that if someone feels Scottish only, they may want independence. But equally, many feel Scottish and British and that creates an identity angle to it all that can’t be wished away. That’s the ‘heart’ side of the argument.

I would vote to stay in the UK, mainly because I think Scotland has a good deal. It pays in less than it receives and would have to grapple with a huge budget deficit and lenders would be less inclined to plug that gap than they would with the UK. I think they would enter a period of significant austerity.

That said, it would open opportunities to out compete the UK and Scotland is a significant financial centre in it’s own right. Also, on things like energy it would be a very considerable mass exporter, albeit having had to compensate the UK for their infrastructure first.

On balance I’m pro devotion, but opposed to independence so I hope they vote No.

Pro devotion to the Tories and UKIP?

[life on mars]

Re: Scottish Independence vote..

Have you not seen the British deficit/debt?

And the UK probably has the better chance of pulling that back , I very much doubt Scotland could on their own .