Coronavirus update - NO MORE RESTRICTIONS

[life on mars]

Re: Coronavirus update

Writes a long-arsed article criticising lockdown then concludes it by saying 'a Swedish approach was always unrealistic in Britain', not sure where he was coming from really.

MD (Dr Phil Hammond) does an excellent piece on Sweden in the latest Private Eye. I don't think it's online anywhere so I can't link it. He says there was a 'slowdown' in Sweden which didn't need to become a full lockdown because 'the majority of Swedes understood and accepted the risks and complied with measures voluntarily'. Obviously I can't vouch for that but my lad spent the first two months of lockdown in Holland and was surprised how stupid British people were in comparison when he moved back here.

MD asks if the UK could've copied Sweden and continues

"Yes, but our outcomes would likely have been far worse. The UK is a much more overcrowded and busier travel hub than Sweden and with little border control the pandemic 'loading dose' in the UK was much higher and more widely spread, so health services would have been under much greater pressure without lockdown.

The UK is also singularly ill-placed to cope with Covid. Our public health is appalling. We have emerged from the pandemic as the Sick Man of Europe because we were the Sick Man of Europe before it started. Covid has just acted as an accelerator of pre-existing risks and inequalities. The UK puts much less into its health and social care system than Sweden. Sweden has a much better life expectancy than the UK (where improvements have stalled for two years running). The UK has far greater levels of poverty, over-crowding, obesity and chronic disease than Sweden. If the UK had tried the Swedish approach without lockdown, the wave of serious illness would've overwhelmed the NHS, because we can barely cope with the wave of serious illnesses that aren't Covid. Yet many are preventable.

Too many Brits take too little personal responsibility for their health, junk food is everywhere and the state does not help those most in need. Two thirds of those who have died from Covid in the UK were already living with disability, and 80% had one or more pre-existing illnesses. Sweden, on the other hand, is one of the fittest nations in Europe, the ideal country to test a more relaxed approach."

(Too many Brits take too little personal responsibility for their health, junk food is everywhere and the state does not help those most in need. Two thirds of those who have died from Covid in the UK were already living with disability, and 80% had one or more pre-existing illnesse)

The above is is so true, balanced with fact we are very ill disciplined and selfish when it comes to others, our eating and drinking is excessive, proven by our poor diabetics and obesity statistics , no wonder the virus has had a field day in the UK , the USA is the same , overweight ,poor lazy eaters ,lack of fitness and personal health standards .

[xsnaggle]

Re: Coronavirus update

So, because "few people" believe the covid figures reported in China, you make the illogical conclusion that these figures are also false without determining that the covid-19 figures are false.

China have been reporting cases of the bubonic plague since 2009, at an average of 3 a year.

At which stage do we stop believing their figures? 2009? 2012? 2019? If it is 2009, then, using your logic "If the numbers are so small and insignificant why are they being so up front at all, unless its to prepare the ground for the reality later? ", and I would ask how long do they need to "prepare the ground for"?

If it is 2019, then why have they been reporting cases since 2009?

Sorry, but there isn't a lot of sense in your argument.

I don't give a toss what you think. I was merely pointing out that they are now telling the world. The fact they are bothering to report it if the cases are genuinely so low is the worrying thing

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

And still they have a lead in the polls, what's wrong with people?

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1295987845157486593

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: Coronavirus update

And still they have a lead in the polls, what's wrong with people?

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/s...87845157486593

Ah yes, David Schneider the comedy actor. Just looked at some of his comments and he too is totally obsessed with finding anything and everything to whack the Government.

[lardy]

Re: Coronavirus update

Ah yes, David Schneider the comedy actor. Just looked at some of his comments and he too is totally obsessed with finding anything and everything to whack the Government.

Looks a little bit like you're shooting the messenger.

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: Coronavirus update

(Too many Brits take too little personal responsibility for their health, junk food is everywhere and the state does not help those most in need. Two thirds of those who have died from Covid in the UK were already living with disability, and 80% had one or more pre-existing illnesse)

The above is is so true, balanced with fact we are very ill disciplined and selfish when it comes to others, our eating and drinking is excessive, proven by our poor diabetics and obesity statistics , no wonder the virus has had a field day in the UK , the USA is the same , overweight ,poor lazy eaters ,lack of fitness and personal health standards .

But I thought

We may manage flu like viruses better via our DNA.
We have less elderly.
Quality of life for elderly better in UK than in rural parts of Italy and Spain.
Better health services.
More disposable income to support a varied diet
Better public health than the outer rural areas of Spain and Italy.
Its vastness of land , may hinder health care reach

No-one can accuse you of not being balanced on this one!

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Looks a little bit like you're shooting the messenger.

Exactly;-

https://www.gov.uk/government/people/john-penrose

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

And another one;-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/alun-cairns-bbi-expenses-claims-18789935#ICID=Android_WalesOnlineNewsApp_AppShare

[Elwood Blues]

Re: Coronavirus update

And still they have a lead in the polls, what's wrong with people?

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/s...87845157486593

Obviously people aren't as intelligent as you
Bob.

Either that or they remember the mess that was the Labour Party just a few short months ago.

My dislike of Jeremy Corbyn is I think well known on this board but perhaps the only times I felt the faintest thing of sympathy towards him was with some of the more outlandish media stories on him (not all stories,sometimes he deserved what he got) and when he would make some comment in the morning to find himself stabbed in the back by one of his shadow cabinet in the afternoon.

One of the worst culprits was his Brexit Shadow minister.

One Sir Keir Starmer.

I don't trust the man but perhaps that will change in time

Don't get me wrong I think the Governnent has got many things wrong recently, and I have never thought that Boris Johnson was the ideal choice as Prime Minister.

But politics by twitter quote leaves me cold, especially when it is by some C grade celebrity on either side of the arguement who wouldn't see good in the other side if hell froze over.

Incidentally I'm not desperately impressed with Dido Harding and her new post either but I don't need David Schneider to tell me that!

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

Obviously people aren't as intelligent as you
Bob.

Either that or they remember the mess that was the Labour Party just a few short months ago.

My dislike of Jeremy Corbyn is I think well known on this board but perhaps the only times I felt the faintest thing of sympathy towards him was with some of the more outlandish media stories on him (not all stories,sometimes he deserved what he got) and when he would make some comment in the morning to find himself stabbed in the back by one of his shadow cabinet in the afternoon.

One of the worst culprits was his Brexit Shadow minister.

One Sir Keir Starmer.

I don't trust the man but perhaps that will change in time

Don't get me wrong I think the Governnent has got many things wrong recently, and I have never thought that Boris Johnson was the ideal choice as Prime Minister.

But politics by twitter quote leaves me cold, especially when it is by some C grade celebrity on either side of the arguement who wouldn't see good in the other side if hell froze over.

Incidentally I'm not desperately impressed with Dido Harding and her new post either but I don't need David Schneider to tell me that!

Well at least one Tory is willing to say why they still favour them and it seems to be the usual "yeah, but what about Labour?" stuff. I did not mention any other party, I'm just bemused as to what it will take for people who, on the one hand, seem almost embarrassed to admit they are Tories to start to question their allegiance!

Did you know that besides being involved with an organisation that was advocating the abolition of Public Health England, Dido Harding's husband was the Government's anti corruption "Champion"? I didn't, so whether it be politics by Twitter quote or not, David Schneider was passing on something that was relevant and informative, but, like lardy, it seems that it is who is revealing that information that is most important to those who defend this Government, not what he revealed.

[life on mars]

Re: Coronavirus update

Obviously people aren't as intelligent as you
Bob.

Either that or they remember the mess that was the Labour Party just a few short months ago.

My dislike of Jeremy Corbyn is I think well known on this board but perhaps the only times I felt the faintest thing of sympathy towards him was with some of the more outlandish media stories on him (not all stories,sometimes he deserved what he got) and when he would make some comment in the morning to find himself stabbed in the back by one of his shadow cabinet in the afternoon.

One of the worst culprits was his Brexit Shadow minister.

One Sir Keir Starmer.

I don't trust the man but perhaps that will change in time

Don't get me wrong I think the Governnent has got many things wrong recently, and I have never thought that Boris Johnson was the ideal choice as Prime Minister.

But politics by twitter quote leaves me cold, especially when it is by some C grade celebrity on either side of the arguement who wouldn't see good in the other side if hell froze over.

Incidentally I'm not desperately impressed with Dido Harding and her new post either but I don't need David Schneider to tell me that!

Maybe when Sir Keir sacks Corbyn , the polls may change in his favour, at the moment they are certainly closing , however once this Covid mess and its hellish consequences settles, the real political battle ,poll results and popularity begins .

[CCFCC3PO]

Re: Coronavirus update

The video has an element of bias in its tone, but it is completely factual. In fact, when you lay out the facts, it is difficult not to sound anti-Government or biased.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Coronavirus update

The video has an element of bias in its tone, but it is completely factual. In fact, when you lay out the facts, it is difficult not to sound anti-Government or biased.

Almost completely factual. It blames Bojo for the Stereophonics concert on 14 March, which of course was Mark Drakeford's decision

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Coronavirus update

The video has an element of bias in its tone, but it is completely factual. In fact, when you lay out the facts, it is difficult not to sound anti-Government or biased.

There's been nearly four months since that video was released as well, this list of Government U turns contains a few things that have happened since late April.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/the-news-explained/governments-missed-targets-broken-promises/

Government apologists have been keen to bring the Labour party into the conversation presumably because they cannot think of anything positive to say about Johnson and co, but just imagine what they would be saying about such a roll of shame if it had been a Labour Government, or any other party besides the Conservatives, elected in December with a record like that?

[CCFCC3PO]

Re: Coronavirus update

There's been nearly four months since that video was released as well, this list of Government U turns contains a few things that have happened since late April.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/the-news-explained/governments-missed-targets-broken-promises/

Government apologists have been keen to bring the Labour party into the conversation presumably because they cannot think of anything positive to say about Johnson and co, but just imagine what they would be saying about such a roll of shame if it had been a Labour Government, or any other party besides the Conservatives, elected in December with a record like that?

Politically, I have never voted for one singular party. It very often changes. However, there is one mainstream party I have never been able to vote for, and that is the Conservative Party. That is purely because they have never struck me as a party that cares for people who fall on hard times, and I have always said that hard times are only a bad day away for most people. I find the concept of voting for one party all through a lifetime a bit strange because parties evolve. The Labour Party that my granddad voted for in 1997 was not the same beast as the one he voted for in 1983.

So, it is sad to see that "staunch Tory voters" are reduced to saying nonsense like "imagine how much worse it would have been if Corbyn had got in?". It's a useful line because it is purely hypothetical, and in the hypothesis it is assumed that Corbyn would have made a mess of it. It's difficult to argue against without hypothesising yourself.

lisvaneblue, who seems to be very anti-Drakeford and not very anti-Johnson (despite the Welsh handling of the crisis post lockdown being much better than the English), has replied to the video by pointing out one inaccuracy and has completely ignored the roll of shame.

I defended the Government when locking down, I still think it was the right thing to do and it very likely saved a lot of lives and saved the NHS. However, during the lockdown huge mistakes were made, not least the decision to release hospital patients into the care system. In time, that will be seen as the most idiotic decision made by a British Government in decades. The decision to rush out of lockdown (in light of removing the spotlight from Cummings and onto good news) will also be seen to be negligent in time. Labour, and Blair, may be accused of introducing "spin" into politics (although Thatcher had a very good spin team) - but Johnson spins us out of the stratosphere. Diverging from the science to divert attention from Cummings was obvious to anyone with half an ounce of sense, as is the increase in anti-migration rhetoric whenever his Government has a bad day.

As for bad days, well the BTEC results were held back today affecting 450,000 young kids. We had the A level fiasco last week affecting thousands of kids. Did we have any statement from Johnson, or is his holiday still of paramount importance?