Some Sense From A British Politician At Last

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: Some Sense From A British Politician At Last

Splendid. Can you ensure that he sends it in a letterbox bottle? https://www.letterboxgifts.co.uk/pro...erlot-red-wine

He's decanting it as I write.

They're brilliant aren't they?! I had some medication posted in a letterbox container the other day. Seriously clever stuff. Wish I 'd thought of it!

[Lither_1927]

Re: Some Sense From A British Politician At Last

We will have to talk about peace and reconciliation at some point. The alternative is perpetual war. Escalation is unthinkable. You don't have to agree with or like Putin to see that is our only option.

So I'm concluding from the responses that anyone who talks of peace with Putin is naive. Thanks for that guys. War it is then. I think that anyone who talks of 'stopping Putin' should be prepared to take up arms themselves and fight. They should know that their own country is likely to be destroyed or crippled in the process and that their children, family and loved ones will likely die.

Saying things like Corbyn sounds like Putin's mouthpiece is unhelpful. I also realise that those of us who want to avoid an escalation of conflict will be shouted down as Putin appeasers. There doesn't seem to be much point in trying to have a sensible and mature discussion about this if this is a litmus test of people's feelings on this board.

MEP Clare Daly- speech from 23 Jun 2022

Agree with you there. This war is also coming at huge cost to the British public

[ToTaL ITK]

Re: Some Sense From A British Politician At Last

“Pouring arms in isn’t going to bring about a solution, it’s only going to prolong and exaggerate this war,” Corbyn said. “We might be in for years and years of a war in Ukraine.”

Guys a fecking genius...why wasn't he around when it all kicked of in Afghanistan...would be been over in 5 minutes

[ToTaL ITK]

Re: Some Sense From A British Politician At Last

I don't think anyone is suggesting perpetual war is preferable to peace talks. The point is that Putin's Russia would have occupied the whole of The Ukraine if he had not met stiff resistance and he will only come to the table to talk peace when he sees fit - and probably when he decides that war has go to the stage where there is an impasse and when he decides to settle for the chunk of Ukraine that he controls at that juncture. He is unlikely to hand back the Crimea, parts of the Donbas and other areas, of course.
Zelensky is in the difficult position of having to send troops to war at present and when Putin decides to settle for what he has, Zelensky has the very difficult task of effectively letting part of his country go.
I work for a charity that supports Ukranian refugees here in Somerset/Devon and the Ukranians I meet are currently in favour of resistance to Russia as things stand - so it's not a case of sitting here in the UK and unilaterally deciding that war should continue as it doesn't affect us personally.
The peace, when it comes, will be down to pragmatism by Putin in respect of what he can realistically achieve in the conflict. It won't be down to western politicians appealing to him on humantarian grounds or by withdrawing logistical support to Ukraine's armed services.

I don't understand her POV..how would the ukraine be able to join the EU if it was part of Russia?

[Lither_1927]

Re: Some Sense From A British Politician At Last

I agree with Corbyn about the need to talk peace, about the historic imperialist role of NATO, and some of the dangers of pouring arms into Ukraine.

The Ukraine war has been a political 'get out of gaol' card for a lot of western leaders (especially Johnson until the cumulative effect of his lies became too much) and a cash machine for the arms industry.

But the key fact remains that Putin chose to invade. Ukraine is not and was not a model liberal democracy and there were abuses and some atrocities in the Donbas after 2014, but the war was Putin's decision. Putin is a right-wing authoritarian gangster, backed by the Russian mafia and a corrupted military, and reading from the Russian nationalist playbook. For all the finger pointing at Ukranian ultra nationalists and neo-Nazis like the Azov Battalion, Putin has promoted and used Russian groupings with similar politics. Russia must be stopped one way or another.

It looks as if the Ukraine war is settling into a stalemate - with both sides toying at times with the idea that they can win. Neither side will win. Short term sanctions have failed, but long term pressure on Putin might be effective. It is time for diplomacy and negotiations not military fantacists.

But the characterisation of Corbyn as Putin's mouthpiece is laughable. I think he is sometimes naive but he is consistent. He has called out Putin from day one. He has no sympathy with or connection to the Putin regime. Unlike Blair, Johnson and dozens of other western leaders who cozied up to Putin, Corbyn was always on the other side of the fence.

Why must Russia be stopped one way or the other? Thèy are no direct threat to us. What you mean is Russia must succumb to American imperialism.