How can people be taken in by this crap?

[the other bob wilson]

Express.jpg

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

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I think people who read the mail and express need to be shot

[Rjk]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1574499481022005248?t=xxkeE0ZqNZDUOdEIeg0_OQ&s=19

[Rjk]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/...dEIeg0_OQ&s=19

if that poll was replicated at a general election it would likely lead to a labour majority of around 180

[jon1959]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

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For the last 10 years or so the Express has been the one national paper that always - always - gives the Tories and their leader of the time 100% uncritical, fawning support. It is their role. Before that they used to major on 'Princess Di' and the weather. Now it is chief cheerleader and apologist for the Tories.

The Mail, the Telegraph, the Times and the rest of the right wing print media sometimes break ranks and stick the knife into the Tories. It never lasts for long, but they do it. I despise the Mail - but they do sometimes do the unexpected and break ranks (and they did play a major role in the Justice for Stephen Lawrence campaign long ago).

But never the Express - which must also be the dullest, most pointless paper out there.

[jon1959]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/...dEIeg0_OQ&s=19

The Tories are supposed to be the greatest election winning political machine in history - but they seem to have completely lost the plot at the moment. It is hard to see them escape this political and economic meltdown.

If Labour win the next election (maybe now more probable than possible?) it will be because the Tories handed it to them.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

For the last 10 years or so the Express has been the one national paper that always - always - gives the Tories and their leader of the time 100% uncritical, fawning support. It is their role. Before that they used to major on 'Princess Di' and the weather. Now it is chief cheerleader and apologist for the Tories.

The Mail, the Telegraph, the Times and the rest of the right wing print media sometimes break ranks and stick the knife into the Tories. It never lasts for long, but they do it. I despise the Mail - but they do sometimes do the unexpected and break ranks (and they did play a major role in the Justice for Stephen Lawrence campaign long ago).

But never the Express - which must also be the dullest, most pointless paper out there.

The Mail’s fallen into line more now that Dacre’s back mind.

[Rjk]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

The Tories are supposed to be the greatest election winning political machine in history - but they seem to have completely lost the plot at the moment. It is hard to see them escape this political and economic meltdown.

If Labour win the next election (maybe now more probable than possible?) it will be because the Tories handed it to them.

they have totally ****ed it. that poll while only an isolated one would equate to only 142 Tory MPs

[the other bob wilson]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

If Labour were to win in two years time (I can’t see even this lot being daft enough to go to the country before that), it would be the first time Rupert Murdoch papers would have backed the losing side in an election since, I’m guessing, the two Labour wins in 1974. If it reaches the stage where the Sun and the Times switch to Labour, then you know the Tories are in trouble.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

I think if labour had a strong leader with a bit of steel , like Lisa nandy , they would be in a far stronger position .

Starmer just isn't a leader in my view , I cringe every time he speaks , considering his career as a top lawyer he just seems lightweight like milliband was

That being said labour seem to be on the rise which is great to see after Boris doing whatever he wants and the Tories remaining high in the polls 🙄

I like Lynch but I hope the left wing of the party keep schtum until labour hopefully get a working majority at the next election and everyone can pull together to keep the Tories out .

Starmer needs to take on the torch of proportional representation and the liberals need to get sharp because if they do the third party can side with labour to keep the blue bastards out of the picture .

I am not really pro labour anymore , I am anti tory and would vote liberal if it kept them out . I remember at the last election having a chat with a local shopkeeper who was standing for the liberals . We had a good talk and I would have voted for her if I had needed to in order to fight the Tories.

I could never gossip away with a tory I am afraid , they are different people .

I think this sway to labour is down to the Tories being so poor rather than labour and starmer winning people over . But it is what it is , hopefully labour can use this period to get a foot through the door 🚪

[Dorcus]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

I think if labour had a strong leader with a bit of steel , like Lisa nandy , they would be in a far stronger position .

Starmer just isn't a leader in my view , I cringe every time he speaks , considering his career as a top lawyer he just seems lightweight like milliband was

That being said labour seem to be on the rise which is great to see after Boris doing whatever he wants and the Tories remaining high in the polls 🙄

I like Lynch but I hope the left wing of the party keep schtum until labour hopefully get a working majority at the next election and everyone can pull together to keep the Tories out .

Starmer needs to take on the torch of proportional representation and the liberals need to get sharp because if they do the third party can side with labour to keep the blue bastards out of the picture .

I am not really pro labour anymore , I am anti tory and would vote liberal if it kept them out . I remember at the last election having a chat with a local shopkeeper who was standing for the liberals . We had a good talk and I would have voted for her if I had needed to in order to fight the Tories.

I could never gossip away with a tory I am afraid , they are different people .

I think this sway to labour is down to the Tories being so poor rather than labour and starmer winning people over . But it is what it is , hopefully labour can use this period to get a foot through the door 🚪

There's no one more to the left than I am and even though I loved Jeremy he could be a tad too right wing for me at times lol

However, I agree with you here Sludge. This incarnation of the Tory party has become so nakedly immoral and incompetent that the only priority is to remove it summarily. Therefore us lefties should, in my opinion, bite our tongues and not rock the boat at this stage. The danger of letting these irresponsible ghouls grab power yet again is glaringly obvious.

Starmer might not be my first choice as leader but in the present circumstances so long as there's clear water between Labour and the Tories I think the whole party should get behind him.

If PR eventually gets Starmer's backing and eventually gets implemented I expect huge changes within the Tory party. Much of the One Nation group of Tories may well join parties further to the left and the core Tory party might remain merely as a far right rump. If this happens the country will save itself from suffering the right wing nightmare we are facing now.

[JamesWales]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

Short answer for me is that it's confirmation bias. We all do it. It's the reason more left-wing people read the guardian or Mirror. We usually want to read things that affirm our opinions more than challenge them.

As Jon says, the Express is also pretty much the most ridiculous mainstream paper in the UK. It really doesn't have the investigative journalism or spectrum of opinion that the Mail does, let alone anything else.

That said, people haven't necessarily been 'taken in'.

On paper 1, assume thats from around 2010? - I think many would have agreed that it was time for something different.
Paper 2, assume thats from 2017? - We don't know what Corbyn would have done, but given we are talking about market disruption today, I think it's fair to say it would have reacted worse to Corbyn than May
On paper 3 - About keeping Boris in the job? Well, you are all now criticising the tax cuts and market reaction now he's gone..maybe they were right!?
On paper 4 - Maybe they are right. It's too soon to tell.

Murdoch (if hes still around) will never back the losing horse. Very significant to see how the Sun etc reports on things. They will be coming round to Labour and Labour know how important that is.

I dont mind Starmer at all. I agree he's a bit dull, a bit technocratic. Of recent PMs he reminds me most of Blair or Cameron. He does increasingly look a safe pair of hands though.

My more general point is that every party in power of left or right has been criticised, voted out, hated, admired, slated, adored in the last 12 years..and the same will happen in the next 12. It matters a lot less than many of us think who is in power.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

I think if labour had a strong leader with a bit of steel , like Lisa nandy , they would be in a far stronger position .

Starmer just isn't a leader in my view , I cringe every time he speaks , considering his career as a top lawyer he just seems lightweight like milliband was

That being said labour seem to be on the rise which is great to see after Boris doing whatever he wants and the Tories remaining high in the polls 🙄

I like Lynch but I hope the left wing of the party keep schtum until labour hopefully get a working majority at the next election and everyone can pull together to keep the Tories out .

Starmer needs to take on the torch of proportional representation and the liberals need to get sharp because if they do the third party can side with labour to keep the blue bastards out of the picture .

I am not really pro labour anymore , I am anti tory and would vote liberal if it kept them out . I remember at the last election having a chat with a local shopkeeper who was standing for the liberals . We had a good talk and I would have voted for her if I had needed to in order to fight the Tories.

I could never gossip away with a tory I am afraid , they are different people .

I think this sway to labour is down to the Tories being so poor rather than labour and starmer winning people over . But it is what it is , hopefully labour can use this period to get a foot through the door 🚪

I think you have lost the plot sludge.

The strategy under Starmer has been pretty simple:

Make the right noises
Commit to very little
Let the Tories dig their own grave

And it is working. Nandy would need to be perfect, if you are centre left and opinionated, you get hammered the moment you make any small error.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

I don't think headlines like that are winning elections for anybody. The role the media has to play in politics is far more nuanced - what do they report, when do they report it and how do they choose to spin it is what will win/lose elections.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: How can people be taken in by this crap?

I think you have lost the plot sludge.

The strategy under Starmer has been pretty simple:

Make the right noises
Commit to very little
Let the Tories dig their own grave

And it is working. Nandy would need to be perfect, if you are centre left and opinionated, you get hammered the moment you make any small error.

Being left wing in a predominantly right leaning country means you have to ditch some of your aims in order to get into power

It's no good ranting and raving and cheering on the likes of corbyn as he is Canon fodder for the Tories

Him , Benn, skinner etc ruin any chance of left of centre government as they give the tories a target

My view is that if starmer is the best chance of a not fecking tory government then so be it but he's not very good in my opinion . The sway towards labour in the opinion polls is clearly a response to the idiots running the country .

I sincerely hope labour cling on enough to form the next government but labour has too many factions and is prone to shooting itself in the foot .