Truss - Where are you?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

Cant drink cost of living kicking in ,you might find chancellor Ozzy , imposed that on him ,he had t deliver it the best way he could ..

The truth is its unfundable in its correct format , as folk live longer the demand grows ( strange one that poor health living longer , something is working ) and there is a huge abuse of the service , people who earn over 6 figures should be forced to go private or have basic emergency care then pay extra insurance cover for the other stuff like a lot of other countries in Europe ,that shwy they have less waiting times and more beds folk simply pay for it .

Is healthcare completely free in Germany?
Yes, all Germans and legal residents of Germany are entitled to free “medically necessary” public healthcare, which is funded by social security contributions. However, citizens must still have either state or private health insurance, covering at least hospital and outpatient medical treatment and pregnancy.

Do you have to pay for hospital treatment in France?
State healthcare in France is not free. Healthcare costs are covered by both the state and through patient contributions. These are known as co-payments. You may have to pay upfront for some treatments.

Does Spain provide free health care?
All residents in Spain need to register to access healthcare. Once registered for healthcare, basic state services are free, but there are some things that patients need to pay for. For example, you usually have to pay something towards prescriptions – either a reduced price or the full price.

Shall I go on ?

Go on copy pasting? I wouldn't bother if I were you.

It feels like you think you have found the magic money tree.

Why would healthcare suddenly be viable if instead of paying for it via my tax bill I now pay state health insurance? Maybe show some workings. Who is going to be paying more and who would be paying less under your plan. The NHS is in a state primarily because it has had to service an unhealthy aging population for decades. Unless you want an insurance system that punishes those people with unaffordable premiums then you aren't gaining any money by changing the way it is funded.

In Germany, richer folk can opt out of contributing to the state pot and instead go fully private (In the UK they would at least still be contributing to the NHS via general taxation without using it). Does that sound good to you?

[Wales-Bales]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

He used to vote labour you know

Apparently

I've only ever voted for Labour, and now I don't vote for anybody, cos they are all a bunch of shysters.

[Feedback]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

Go on copy pasting? I wouldn't bother if I were you.

It feels like you think you have found the magic money tree.

Why would healthcare suddenly be viable if instead of paying for it via my tax bill I now pay state health insurance? Maybe show some workings. Who is going to be paying more and who would be paying less under your plan. The NHS is in a state primarily because it has had to service an unhealthy aging population for decades. Unless you want an insurance system that punishes those people with unaffordable premiums then you aren't gaining any money by changing the way it is funded.

In Germany, richer folk can opt out of contributing to the state pot and instead go fully private (In the UK they would at least still be contributing to the NHS via general taxation without using it). Does that sound good to you?

You clearly do not know the German system. You make a choice when you are young whether to choose state or private. Once that decision is made there is no going back. One is cheaper than the other when you are younger, but becomes more expensive as you get older. Regardless of the provider of insurance (state v private), in Germany you will see the same doctor.

Its a much better system than what we have here as everyone gets to see the same doctors, consultants and specialists.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

You clearly do not know the German system. You make a choice when you are young whether to choose state or private. Once that decision is made there is no going back. One is cheaper than the other when you are younger, but becomes more expensive as you get older. Regardless of the provider of insurance (state v private), in Germany you will see the same doctor.

Its a much better system than what we have here as everyone gets to see the same doctors, consultants and specialists.

A lot of what you have written isn't true as far as I am aware.

You cant opt out of public healthcare unless your income is above the set threshold (not sure what that is right now), it has nothing to do with 'choosing when you are young' and also you are permitted to re-enroll in the public system if you income drops below that threshold.

The German system cost per head is significantly higher than the UK so it's pretty hard to compare 'better'.

My only point initially was around the ability of a high earners to essentially opt out of the common fund Vs them going private in the UK and still being obliged to fund the NHS via general taxation whilst paying their private insurance on top.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

You clearly do not know the German system. You make a choice when you are young whether to choose state or private. Once that decision is made there is no going back. One is cheaper than the other when you are younger, but becomes more expensive as you get older. Regardless of the provider of insurance (state v private), in Germany you will see the same doctor.

Its a much better system than what we have here as everyone gets to see the same doctors, consultants and specialists.

I've done a bit more research as a family member is moving back to Germany and it turns out even that last paragraph is wrong, just in case anybody thought there was a correlation between confidence and correctness.

'Germany has private doctors and specialists in the healthcare system. Some private doctors and specialists will only see privately insured patients. Therefore, a patient with public insurance cannot access these doctors. Likewise, some expats with private insurance choose to see private doctors, including general practitioners, pediatricians, and psychologists. Notably, these doctors tend to have shorter waiting times and may provide more alternative medicine options that are covered by private insurance.'

https://www.expatica.com/de/healthca...hese%20doctors.

[Feedback]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

A lot of what you have written isn't true as far as I am aware.

You cant opt out of public healthcare unless your income is above the set threshold (not sure what that is right now), it has nothing to do with 'choosing when you are young' and also you are permitted to re-enroll in the public system if you income drops below that threshold.

typically Germans make a choice when they are young to opt in to private healthcare. Private provision is actuarial based so younger healthier people are deemed lower risk ergo they have lower premiums. Public funded systems are flat rate, so can be more expensive when you are younger.

The German system cost per head is significantly higher than the UK so it's pretty hard to compare 'better'.

not sure of your point - I'm all for increasing expenditure on healthcare in the UK, and if that means we have to pay more in tax o be it.

My only point initially was around the ability of a high earners to essentially opt out of the common fund Vs them going private in the UK and still being obliged to fund the NHS via general taxation whilst paying their private insurance on top.

this is where we disagree. I don't see a problem with alleviating the burden of the NHS. If we suddenly removed private healthcare provision in the UK then the NHS would collapse. I'm not sure if that is what you want, but it is what would happen.

[Feedback]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

I've done a bit more research as a family member is moving back to Germany and it turns out even that last paragraph is wrong, just in case anybody thought there was a correlation between confidence and correctness.

if I agreed with you we would both be wrong.

this confidence is from someone who has actually used the German system.

'Germany has private doctors and specialists in the healthcare system. Some private doctors and specialists will only see privately insured patients. Therefore, a patient with public insurance cannot access these doctors. Likewise, some expats with private insurance choose to see private doctors, including general practitioners, pediatricians, and psychologists. Notably, these doctors tend to have shorter waiting times and may provide more alternative medicine options that are covered by private insurance.'

https://www.expatica.com/de/healthca...hese%20doctors.

I'd be keen to see the evidence for this, given it is illegal at the federal level for a medical practitioner to refuse a patient.

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

typically Germans make a choice when they are young to opt in to private healthcare. Private provision is actuarial based so younger healthier people are deemed lower risk ergo they have lower premiums. Public funded systems are flat rate, so can be more expensive when you are younger.

not sure of your point - I'm all for increasing expenditure on healthcare in the UK, and if that means we have to pay more in tax o be it.
this is where we disagree. I don't see a problem with alleviating the burden of the NHS. If we suddenly removed private healthcare provision in the UK then the NHS would collapse. I'm not sure if that is what you want, but it is what would happen.

You are reading what you want me to say and not what I am saying. I am saying it's good that wealthy people contribute to the publicly funded system while not using it. Where have you got me wanting to remove 'private healthcare provision' from?

[Eric Cartman]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

if I agreed with you we would both be wrong.

this confidence is from someone who has actually used the German system.


I'd be keen to see the evidence for this, given it is illegal at the federal level for a medical practitioner to refuse a patient.

I don't read German so maybe you could get the relevant law and translate for us.

The UK government advice seems to suggest that some doctors only treat private patients:

"If you’re registered with a statutory health insurer rather than a private insurer, you need to make sure you go to a doctor or dentist who treats statutory-insured patients. These doctors and dentists are usually identified as:

‘Kassenarzt’ (statutory health insurance physician)
‘Vertragsarzt’ (registered contract physician)
‘Alle Kassen’ (all health insurance funds accepted)"

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/healthcare-in-germany

It would seem weird to give this advice if there wasn't a fourth category which excludes those on statutory insurance.

[Feedback]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

you need to search Fünftes Sozialgesetzbuch (the fifth healthcare code), which is the federal law concerning healthcare provision. you are interested in part 9.

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

you need to search Fünftes Sozialgesetzbuch (the fifth healthcare code), which is the federal law concerning healthcare provision. you are interested in part 9.

I’m sitting in a train between Aachen and Wuppertal at the moment with nothing much better to do so thought I would take a look out of interest. I’ve found section 9. Which is the relevant bit?

[life on mars]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

I've done a bit more research as a family member is moving back to Germany and it turns out even that last paragraph is wrong, just in case anybody thought there was a correlation between confidence and correctness.

'Germany has private doctors and specialists in the healthcare system. Some private doctors and specialists will only see privately insured patients. Therefore, a patient with public insurance cannot access these doctors. Likewise, some expats with private insurance choose to see private doctors, including general practitioners, pediatricians, and psychologists. Notably, these doctors tend to have shorter waiting times and may provide more alternative medicine options that are covered by private insurance.'

https://www.expatica.com/de/healthca...hese%20doctors.

So the wonderful German , looks after the rich or those can pay a bit more get more where as the NHS looks after everyone , no wonder were skint

[Feedback]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

I’m sitting in a train between Aachen and Wuppertal at the moment with nothing much better to do so thought I would take a look out of interest. I’ve found section 9. Which is the relevant bit?

all of it

here you go linky

[Feedback]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

I’m sitting in a train between Aachen and Wuppertal at the moment with nothing much better to do so thought I would take a look out of interest. I’ve found section 9. Which is the relevant bit?

just out of curiosity, if you live in Aachen (and there is nothing that says you do) have you ever been to Kerkrade / Herzogenrath, specifically New Street?

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Truss - Where are you?

just out of curiosity, if you live in Aachen (and there is nothing that says you do) have you ever been to Kerkrade / Herzogenrath, specifically New Street?

Hi. No just on my travels. I haven't been to Herzogenrath but will be passing through there on my way to Maastricht in a couple of days. Anything I shouldn't miss? :-)

Thanks for link. I couldn't see anything there relating to your discussion with Eric - but it's not that important! Maybe I didn't read the thread closely enough.