When Will The Left ?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: When Will The Left ?

Well, not me. The most recent comment I made on all that is that if there was an election tomorrow I would vote Labour. I've voted for the red lot more than the blue and voted for one of each in the last Cardiff council elections.

What is frustrating is when for some people, EVERYTHING is the fault of the government. It just isn't so.

Just like not EVERYTHING in Cardiff is the fault of Cardiff Council. Not EVERYTHING in Wales is the fault of the Welsh Govt etc etc etc.

It's no different to people who think the glory days are guaranteed if we just sack the manager.

Nonsense

The tory party and its government have been a car crash on acid and the last few months have seen them ignore
the country to try and sort out their own mess

You have been a constant source of support for the shysters

It would irk less if you just came clean but pretending to be a soft tory is a joke .

The only way I would believe you in your claim you don't always vote Tory would be to vote labour , Liberal, Plaid or green in a proxy vote on your behalf

And even then I would check ✔

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: When Will The Left ?

I could name one whose loyalty to a particular party will override anything else.😀

Keep it to yourself

[cyril evans awaydays]

Re: When Will The Left ?

For my two-pennyworth.

In terms of the challenges facing this country, asylum seeking boat people are more noise than heat. Offered a choice of key issues in polls, immigration gets about 20% of top three choices. At the time of the Brexit referendum it was double that.

It certainly triggers the 20%, including a few on here. There is also a shifting narrative. Those who have suddenly found the Albanians in the last months as the latest heat source would have more credibility if they were not equally as vociferous about the "genuine" asylum seekers before Tirana apparently emptied.

That said, for me, the Albanian surge smells. A mature process should be able to separate genuine asylum seekers, chancing economic migrants and illegal immigrants. The Albanian issue mobs them all together.

I understand the argument that about 80% of female Albanians are granted asylum because of their risk of or actual sexual exploitation. What I can't quite rationalise is how they sought to escape sexual exploitation by putting themselves in the hands of people traffickers, who would be the most likely people to exploit them. You have to wonder what happens to these poor women once they are granted asylum when the likely contacts in the UK are possibly the people who shuttled them here in the first place!

There is a real risk that the genuine asylum seekers looking at the UK, where we take a small burden compared with most of the remaining EU, are more vulnerable because of the posture of the UK government and people exploiting Albanians, for whatever reason!

[Feedback]

Re: When Will The Left ?

No, my position on the Rwanda plan is that people offered no alternative and that was broadly rooted (I argued) that people didn't seem to have a big issue with what was going on.

Read this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070

Anyone saying several months ago what is now being reported as fact would have been chastised by many on the left. Albanian gangs? People smugglers? Emptied Albanian towns etc? The default argument against that was that these are desperate people and this is heartless etc.

It's good you say people should be sent back if they fail asylum claims, but this still costs us a lot of money, it takes years and often because of the same lawyers who are desperate to prevent serious foreign criminals being deported.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59243086

Anyway, finally it seems people appreciate whats going on. Shame that wasn't acknowledged months ago

what's wrong with settling them here?

[Feedback]

Re: When Will The Left ?

I don't use the term 'lefty lawyers' constantly.

But there are plenty of law firms looking to unpick any issue related to immigration, whether it's trying to prevent Jamaican criminals being deported to encouraging anyone to claim asylum in the UK.

And I do think that's irresponsible and not making the country a better place

This is the guy behing Cranbrook Legal who helped keep a murderer in the UK. Brilliant, thanks for that mate.
His twitter is an A-Z of left-wing causes. No doubt he does very well out of it all.
https://twitter.com/AmerZaman13

one of the greatest things we have in our democracy is due process, and our government cannot just treat the people under its jurisdiction in any old manner. If this means that everyone has a legal route to redress then so be it.

[Feedback]

Re: When Will The Left ?

Thats nice of you Peter.

Not everyone agrees with you or Eric you know. It's important to have different opinions.

I do think there is a collective naivity on the left about what has happened in the English channel this summer, yes.

And when have I ever referenced a piece of economic data that is inaccurate about Europe? I'm not sure you have ever in fact disagreed with me on that - indeed, you wouldn't be disagreeing with me, you would be disagreeing with eurostat in most cases.

or maybe the left understand the situation just as well as you do, but they have a difference of opinion on how to solve the issue and just how serious theissue is to the UK.

You're all about differing opinions - amirite?

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

or maybe the left understand the situation just as well as you do, but they have a difference of opinion on how to solve the issue and just how serious theissue is to the UK.

You're all about differing opinions - amirite?

Of course, that goes without saying.

If someone says something on an internet forum it is an opinion, not a statement of fact.

Nonetheless, I do think there was a naivity. Hiding behind the 'everyone is a desperate refugee' etc etc does create a culture where people can (and seemingly have) exploited it.

Of course, 'the right' can be excused of being heartless too. But on this occasion I think there has been a naivity.

[life on mars]

Re: When Will The Left ?

Of course, that goes without saying.

If someone says something on an internet forum it is an opinion, not a statement of fact.

Nonetheless, I do think there was a naivity. Hiding behind the 'everyone is a desperate refugee' etc etc does create a culture where people can (and seemingly have) exploited it.

Of course, 'the right' can be excused of being heartless too. But on this occasion I think there has been a naivity.

Or the left see lots of vote potential?? Let's hope there desire and motivations are right sadly I have my doubts , I do think they see votes in metropolitan high density areas .. not easy to find that is so .

Saw some dubious material posted in a recent by election with a large Muslim population, of Boris shaking hands with the Indian prime minister ( why was that ? )

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

one of the greatest things we have in our democracy is due process, and our government cannot just treat the people under its jurisdiction in any old manner. If this means that everyone has a legal route to redress then so be it.

Of course. But we also have bad laws and we have poor interpretations of the law. And if it means almost anyone can claim asylum, the process takes a great many months, it can be exploited by criminal gangs and is all funded by a taxpayer, many of whom can barely feed themselves, then people have a right to be miffed about the system.

This stock answer of 'its the law, thats fine!' is not what people say when it goes the other way.

[Dorcus]

Re: When Will The Left ?

I think sooner or later politicians will wake up to the realisation that the solutions (and maybe only with limited results) to this problem are only found with global cooperation. I don't think any one country can both effectively and humanely resolve the issue.

I think it would also be a massive help if politicians of all hues stop treating this issue as a political football and start levelling up with people and collectively begin a process of public education with the aim of dampening the hostile discourse.

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

Or the left see lots of vote potential?? Let's hope there desire and motivations are right sadly I have my doubts , I do think they see votes in metropolitan high density areas .. not easy to find that is so .

Saw some dubious material posted in a recent by election with a large Muslim population, of Boris shaking hands with the Indian prime minister ( why was that ? )

I think it's more a case of being absolutely blindsided by the whole identity politics / race debate, so any criticism of things like immigration levels or asylum processes is seen as racism.

Now don't get me wrong, often the criticism is based on that, which is plainly wrong, but it's also possible that the processes in place, no matter how sensitive, can break down, fail, be exploited or abused etc.

It's similar to the mermaids charity, where any criticism was labelled as transphobic etc, and that provides cover for all kinds of bad processes. Likewise, grooming gangs where people kept quiet for fear of being labelled racist.

We need to move on from this kind of thing, it's a real curse IMO

[tforturton]

Re: When Will The Left ?

any evidence of what appears at first sight to be a wild statement?

You must be the only person not currently aware of this. Type 'Albanian drug gangs UK' into Google. The list is endless.

[tforturton]

Re: When Will The Left ?

He's probably been watching "Gangs of London"

Nope - its common knowledge.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: When Will The Left ?

NATALIE ELPHICKE: Asks When will The Left admit this is no refugee crisis... but simply illegal immigration ..

It's a cracking question ..

What can happen when the right start culture wars about immigration.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-63526659

[JamesWales]

Re: When Will The Left ?

What can happen when the right start culture wars about immigration.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-63526659

No thats what happens when you ignore issues Bob.