Richard Osman comment about the far right

[Eric the Half a Bee]

He made an interesting point on a panel show recently where he said that the Institute of Economic Affairs (a right wing, libertarian, free market think tank) have been chipping away at getting its people into positions of power. Suddenly they're all there - Truss, Kwarteng etc. It disintegrates within a month. It is the death of far right politics in the country from within a right wing party. Osman described it as the biggest political failure in the history of the UK.

He's right. The UK doesn't want a far right government. Tories are now trying desperately to put themselves back into the middle ground.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

He made an interesting point on a panel show recently where he said that the Institute of Economic Affairs (a right wing, libertarian, free market think tank) have been chipping away at getting its people into positions of power. Suddenly they're all there - Truss, Kwarteng etc. It disintegrates within a month. It is the death of far right politics in the country from within a right wing party. Osman described it as the biggest political failure in the history of the UK.

He's right. The UK doesn't want a far right government. Tories are now trying desperately to put themselves back into the middle ground.

It wants a right of centre government though

This country is centre right leaning and always has been unfortunately

Maybe things will change at the next election but I wouldn't bet against this country electing a Conservative government again

The electorate are fecking thick as feck and have short memories

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

It wants a right of centre government though

This country is centre right leaning and always has been unfortunately

Maybe things will change at the next election but I wouldn't bet against this country electing a Conservative government again

The electorate are fecking thick as feck and have short memories

Get things correct.

England is centre right leaning and Wales has to put up with that.

[jon1959]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

This country is centre right leaning and always has been unfortunately

Not always centre right - 1945 was a rejection of the centre right, and 1997 was a massive win for a social democratic party that may have ditched Clause 4 but hadn't yet sold its soul and its principles to Murdoch and Bush.

Politics, social cohesion and identity are all more volatile now than at any other time I can remember - with large numbers of voters capable of switching quickly from right to left and from traditional to emerging parties or causes. A large part of the disillusioned and 'abandoned' vote that went to UKIP, the Tories in 2019 and Brexit was also attracted to Corbyn's Labour in 2017, supports tax rises to fund the NHS and backs the Enough Is Enough trade union actions.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Not always centre right - 1945 was a rejection of the centre right, and 1997 was a massive win for a social democratic party that may have ditched Clause 4 but hadn't yet sold its soul and its principles to Murdoch and Bush.

Politics, social cohesion and identity are all more volatile now than at any other time I can remember - with large numbers of voters capable of switching quickly from right to left and from traditional to emerging parties or causes. A large part of the disillusioned and 'abandoned' vote that went to UKIP, the Tories in 2019 and Brexit was also attracted to Corbyn's Labour in 2017, supports tax rises to fund the NHS and backs the Enough Is Enough trade union actions.

Exactly, while I’d agree that the UK (England especially) is a conservative (small c) nation at heart, there are “moments” when the nation’s instinct is to move away from that. For example, the country had had enough of too much union power in the late seventies and went further right than small c conservatism.As you say, 1945 was the opposite, and, for me, the country has been going further right under particularly inept Governments over the last dozen years - the time seems right for a recalibration, it feels right for one of those moments.

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Britain wants a government that is balanced and works. Same as every other country. In most cases that means a centre-left or centre-right government. Most people don't care for the ideology because ideologies don't solve problems. Most governments will actually react in the same way to most problems.

It is preposterous to label the IEA as far-right or Kwarteng or Truss as such. Their budget was ultra-liberal if anything.

I don't know what a 'far right' fiscal policy would be, because the term normally applies to social policies not fiscal ones. Their budget was a mistake but it wasn't a 'far right' one.

[Dorcus]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Britain wants a government that is balanced and works. Same as every other country. In most cases that means a centre-left or centre-right government. Most people don't care for the ideology because ideologies don't solve problems. Most governments will actually react in the same way to most problems.

It is preposterous to label the IEA as far-right or Kwarteng or Truss as such. Their budget was ultra-liberal if anything.

I don't know what a 'far right' fiscal policy would be, because the term normally applies to social policies not fiscal ones. Their budget was a mistake but it wasn't a 'far right' one.

Far right fiscal policy deploys tax and spending to increase inequality in an attempt to encourage the wealthy to use their money to stimulate growth.

Far left fiscal policy deploys tax and spending to decrease inequality and redistribute wealth in an attempt to improve infrastructure and social conditions so as to stimulate growth.

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Far right fiscal policy deploys tax and spending to increase inequality in an attempt to encourage the wealthy to use their money to stimulate growth.

Far left fiscal policy deploys tax and spending to decrease inequality and redistribute wealth in an attempt to improve infrastructure and social conditions so as to stimulate growth.

That isn't what far-right parties do though. Germany nazis, Italian fascists, Le Pen, whoever..they don't advocate free market economics.

Economic left-right scales don't operate on the same scale as social left-right scales. In that case, the EU as a totally liberal, deregulated free market across national borders would constitute the far-right, but that isn't accurate.

Aside from anything else, the loss of the 45% tax rate (which was their biggest error probably) would have returned the wealthiest rate of tax to Blairs time - Blair didn't employ far-right economic policies though.

[jon1959]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Truss and Kwartang wanted a low tax, deregulated, small state - where individual choice (for those that can afford it) trumps collective provision. That is a right wing political/fiscal/social agenda combined. Whether it is 'far right' i don't know, or care.

And the EU is not a totally deregulated, liberal free market. That was a fair description of the EEC at the time of the Heath referendum, but it had evolved under pressure from trades unions and campaigners across Europe. The employment and environmental regulation in the EU was a reason that most members of the TUC and most of 'the left' (excluding the SWP and Dennis Skinner - who were still running the arguments of the 1970s) supported remain. It was also one of the main reasons the ERG wanted out.

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Truss and Kwartang wanted a low tax, deregulated, small state - where individual choice (for those that can afford it) trumps collective provision. That is a right wing political/fiscal/social agenda combined. Whether it is 'far right' i don't know, or care.

And the EU is not a totally deregulated, liberal free market. That was a fair description of the EEC at the time of the Heath referendum, but it had evolved under pressure from trades unions and campaigners across Europe. The employment and environmental regulation in the EU was a reason that most members of the TUC and most of 'the left' (excluding the SWP and Dennis Skinner - who were still running the arguments of the 1970s) supported remain. It was also one of the main reasons the ERG wanted out.

The employment and environmental laws aren't fiscal policy though. I agree, in terms of most social, environmental etc policies the EU isn't right-wing, although it has been centre-right led for some years now.

Fiscally though, it's like Thatcherisms wet dream. It is total deregulation across national markets. Individual governments ability to intervene is heavily diminished and competition and free market principles are built into it's DNA.

That doesn't mean it is far-right at all because as I say, such phrases don't really apply in economic terms, but it is certainly a very liberal interpretation of how markets should work.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Not always centre right - 1945 was a rejection of the centre right, and 1997 was a massive win for a social democratic party that may have ditched Clause 4 but hadn't yet sold its soul and its principles to Murdoch and Bush.

Politics, social cohesion and identity are all more volatile now than at any other time I can remember - with large numbers of voters capable of switching quickly from right to left and from traditional to emerging parties or causes. A large part of the disillusioned and 'abandoned' vote that went to UKIP, the Tories in 2019 and Brexit was also attracted to Corbyn's Labour in 2017, supports tax rises to fund the NHS and backs the Enough Is Enough trade union actions.

2 occasions in god knows how long

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Exactly, while I’d agree that the UK (England especially) is a conservative (small c) nation at heart, there are “moments” when the nation’s instinct is to move away from that. For example, the country had had enough of too much union power in the late seventies and went further right than small c conservatism.As you say, 1945 was the opposite, and, for me, the country has been going further right under particularly inept Governments over the last dozen years - the time seems right for a recalibration, it feels right for one of those moments.

Twice since the end of world war two

That really doesn't suggest to me that we are not a right of centre country

I wish we wernt believe me

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Twice since the end of world war two

That really doesn't suggest to me that we are not a right of centre country

I wish we wernt believe me

I was just giving a couple of examples, I could have said Wilson’s first Government and 1997 with Blair.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

Britain wants a government that is balanced and works. Same as every other country. In most cases that means a centre-left or centre-right government. Most people don't care for the ideology because ideologies don't solve problems. Most governments will actually react in the same way to most problems.

It is preposterous to label the IEA as far-right or Kwarteng or Truss as such. Their budget was ultra-liberal if anything.

I don't know what a 'far right' fiscal policy would be, because the term normally applies to social policies not fiscal ones. Their budget was a mistake but it wasn't a 'far right' one.

There no such concept that represents 'what Britain wants'. Voters cast their votes individually, whether the recipient of their vote in recent years was Boris Johnson's conservative party, Nigel Frage's UKIP party or Jeremy Corbin's Labour Party.

[JamesWales]

Re: Richard Osman comment about the far right

There no such concept that represents 'what Britain wants'. Voters cast their votes individually, whether the recipient of their vote in recent years was Boris Johnson's conservative party, Nigel Frage's UKIP party or Jeremy Corbin's Labour Party.

Well, of course there is no clear, universal definition of what the country wants. But it would be reasonable to assume that general election results give us a fair indication, no?