The difference between them and us?

[Dave Blue]

Re: The difference between them and us?

Imagine if we won. It would devastate them for a decade.

[Ninja]

Re: The difference between them and us?

Imagine if we won. It would devastate them for a decade.

They'd be down for a few days, just like we are when we lose to them.
Then, life goes on.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: The difference between them and us?

I didn't want to post something long in this thread, but I think I'm going to have to if I'm to get across my somewhat contradictory feelings on the subject.

About fifteen years ago, Dave Jones told us that the Swansea/Cardiff derby was nothing compared to a Merseyside derby and, in public at least, his attitude seemed to be that it was just another game - I must say mind, comparing our performances against Swansea under the "surly scouser" with recent ones, we were much more successful in the fixture and our players were definitely more up for the game than they have been under recent managers (with one possible exception).

Nevertheless, Jones' attitude has been a bit of a template for most City managers since then. I can't find a link to it, but Sabri Lamouchi was asked in one of his recent pre match press conferences about the Swansea fixture and he listed the games we had to play before then while saying his mind was on them more.

That goes to the heart of what I think is a differing attitude between the two clubs towards the fixture, What Russell Martin said was perfectly reasonable in that he wanted a turn around in results before the international break, but to then bring the derby into it strikes me as something that a Cardiff manager, of the last decade or so at least, would not do.

Apart from a backs to the wall win at their place in 2021 and a non event home draw a year earlier, recent games with the jacks have tended to be humiliating experiences for City and, given those outcomes, the reasonable question has been asked, do Swansea get what the fixture is about more than Cardiff?

Downplaying the relevance of the derby has done City no good in recent years and, in the build up to the meeting between the teams earlier in the season, the signals from then manager Mark Hudson were that this time things were going to be different - they were, one of our players was so wound up that he got himself sent off in the first ten minutes and, although the game was another embarrassment, we at least had a partial excuse this time and could argue that things might have been different if it had remained eleven against eleven.

For a hundred years or so, Swansea v Cardiff was a fixture which neither side could dominate, but, in recent years, even before we suffered the first league double loss by the ridiculous aggregate score of 7-0, we'd been hanging on to that record - it was obvious that Swansea were going to beat us twice soon.

Is the dominance of one side over the other in the fixture down to one of them understanding what it entails better than the other or is it just that our recent long ball, physical approach just plays into Swansea's hands? I don't know the answer to that question, but I wouldn't like a City manager talking about a fixture that is three weeks, and a couple of games away, like Martin is doing - especially when there's going to be a fortnight's build up to the match. In saying that, perhaps my attitude offers a clue as to why we do so badly against Swansea lately? What we need is a game where we rise to the occasion and are competitive against the jacks in which we end up getting a positive result to be given a reminder as to what it was that we used to get right against the jacks.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: The difference between them and us?

Is the dominance of one side over the other in the fixture down to one of them understanding what it entails better than the other or is it just that our recent long ball, physical approach just plays into Swansea's hands? I don't know the answer to that question, but I wouldn't like a City manager talking about a fixture that is three weeks, and a couple of games away, like Martin is doing - especially when there's going to be a fortnight's build up to the match.

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. That BBC report is essentially clickbait. Martin only mentions the derby match once, briefly, and we don't know how the question he was responding to was framed.

I'm certain Martin is far more focused on the next two games rather than the derby, because if he loses them he might be out of a job by April.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: The difference between them and us?

I didn't want to post something long in this thread, but I think I'm going to have to if I'm to get across my somewhat contradictory feelings on the subject.

About fifteen years ago, Dave Jones told us that the Swansea/Cardiff derby was nothing compared to a Merseyside derby and, in public at least, his attitude seemed to be that it was just another game - I must say mind, comparing our performances against Swansea under the "surly scouser" with recent ones, we were much more successful in the fixture and our players were definitely more up for the game than they have been under recent managers (with one possible exception).

Nevertheless, Jones' attitude has been a bit of a template for most City managers since then. I can't find a link to it, but Sabri Lamouchi was asked in one of his recent pre match press conferences about the Swansea fixture and he listed the games we had to play before then while saying his mind was on them more.

That goes to the heart of what I think is a differing attitude between the two clubs towards the fixture, What Russell Martin said was perfectly reasonable in that he wanted a turn around in results before the international break, but to then bring the derby into it strikes me as something that a Cardiff manager, of the last decade or so at least, would not do.

Apart from a backs to the wall win at their place in 2021 and a non event home draw a year earlier, recent games with the jacks have tended to be humiliating experiences for City and, given those outcomes, the reasonable question has been asked, do Swansea get what the fixture is about more than Cardiff?

Downplaying the relevance of the derby has done City no good in recent years and, in the build up to the meeting between the teams earlier in the season, the signals from then manager Mark Hudson were that this time things were going to be different - they were, one of our players was so wound up that he got himself sent off in the first ten minutes and, although the game was another embarrassment, we at least had a partial excuse this time and could argue that things might have been different if it had remained eleven against eleven.

For a hundred years or so, Swansea v Cardiff was a fixture which neither side could dominate, but, in recent years, even before we suffered the first league double loss by the ridiculous aggregate score of 7-0, we'd been hanging on to that record - it was obvious that Swansea were going to beat us twice soon.

Is the dominance of one side over the other in the fixture down to one of them understanding what it entails better than the other or is it just that our recent long ball, physical approach just plays into Swansea's hands? I don't know the answer to that question, but I wouldn't like a City manager talking about a fixture that is three weeks, and a couple of games away, like Martin is doing - especially when there's going to be a fortnight's build up to the match. In saying that, perhaps my attitude offers a clue as to why we do so badly against Swansea lately? What we need is a game where we rise to the occasion and are competitive against the jacks in which we end up getting a positive result to be given a reminder as to what it was that we used to get right against the jacks.

Spot on Bob, it is strange that some posters have decided to take a different from the obvious position that Swansea cares about the fixture more and ignoring the obvious quotes from their recent press article, and just doubling down on it.

Maybe they don't know any Swansea fans or haven't worked further west in Bridgend, Neath, Port Talbot, and Swansea, maybe that's why they see things from a different perspective.

Even Wales online writers further west use the game for headlines weeks before.

Martin makes derby day admission

Russell Martin admits his side need a win before the international break to build up some much needed momentum ahead of next month's South Wales derby.

Swansea City have dominated the fixture in recent years. After claiming the first double in the history of the fixture, they once again humbled their rivals earlier in the season with a 2-0 win at the Swansea.com Stadium.

"We need a win," Martin said. "We need a win before the break to help us build a bit of momentum ahead of the derby game, and for everyone to feel positive and to build some confidence.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/swansea-city-news-russell-martin-26453634

No mention in the Cardiff article, just focusing only on WBA and the fitness of key players.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cardiff-city-news-bluebirds-left-26460685

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The difference between them and us?

Since Swansea rose from the depths to the under toshack they have , I think , had the best out of the derbies , since 1981 ?

That's my perception of things and certainly since we started playing them regularly again , in most people's memories , they have had the upper hand

Local derbies , all over the country , are often cagey affairs and I am sure if we look into the history of Derby Forest , Burnley Blackburn , Preston Blackpool , Southampton Portsmouth etc , fans of those respective clubs will be able to provide us with all sorts of ups and downs

Our problem is that despite our larger size and catchment area we havnt been able to get into the top flight and create clear distance football wise between us and them

Even if we did that there would still be times when we would lose because that's the way football is

I think personally that watching sabris reaction to the crowd and the players after wins suggests to me he's more than aware of the importance of these games

[Hilts]

Re: The difference between them and us?

Spot on Bob, it is strange that some posters have decided to take a different from the obvious position that Swansea cares about the fixture more and ignoring the obvious quotes from their recent press article, and just doubling down on it.

Maybe they don't know any Swansea fans or haven't worked further west in Bridgend, Neath, Port Talbot, and Swansea, maybe that's why they see things from a different perspective.

Even Wales online writers further west use the game for headlines weeks before.

Martin makes derby day admission

Russell Martin admits his side need a win before the international break to build up some much needed momentum ahead of next month's South Wales derby.

Swansea City have dominated the fixture in recent years. After claiming the first double in the history of the fixture, they once again humbled their rivals earlier in the season with a 2-0 win at the Swansea.com Stadium.

"We need a win," Martin said. "We need a win before the break to help us build a bit of momentum ahead of the derby game, and for everyone to feel positive and to build some confidence.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/swansea-city-news-russell-martin-26453634

No mention in the Cardiff article, just focusing only on WBA and the fitness of key players.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...-left-26460685

Im glad we are only focusing on WBA.

Exactly as it should be.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The difference between them and us?

Im glad we are only focusing on WBA.

Exactly as it should be.

Absolutely

We need some points on the board before we play in a local Derby

I will be pissed off if we lose but even more pissed off if we are back in the relegation mire again after April 1st

[JamesWales]

Re: The difference between them and us?

I think my opinion of the general intensity of the derby reduced a fair bit after that 0-0 game at home in early 2020. The game and especially the atmosphere was dire. Since then Covid and the 0-4 game hasn't helped but I think it is a game that has lost some edge tbh

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: The difference between them and us?

I think my opinion of the general intensity of the derby reduced a fair bit after that 0-0 game at home in early 2020. The game and especially the atmosphere was dire. Since then Covid and the 0-4 game hasn't helped but I think it is a game that has lost some edge tbh

Oh no it hasn't

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: The difference between them and us?

[JamesWales]

Re: The difference between them and us?

Oh no it hasn't

Biggest game of the season Sludge and the attendance will reflect that. But it doesn't feel like it has the intensity of that kinda 2018-2013 period. Not for me anyway. Like I said, that 0-0 game at home stands out particularly for the poor atmosphere

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: The difference between them and us?

I think he will be sacked maybe before we play them, or if we beat them.

One game closer to the sack and the cup final!

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: The difference between them and us?

Biggest game of the season Sludge and the attendance will reflect that. But it doesn't feel like it has the intensity of that kinda 2018-2013 period. Not for me anyway. Like I said, that 0-0 game at home stands out particularly for the poor atmosphere

Rare moment here, but I agree.

Those Championship seasons produced some really intense derby games. It had been a while since we'd faced each other at that level and both clubs were always in the promotion frame. I recall the 2-1 win at the CCS when Chopra netted with the last kick. There hasn't been a bigger derby game with so much at stake as that game. Both sides were on the up, they won promotion before us, which hurt us. We won the first top flight derby.

Since then it's been one way traffic. We go into the derby expecting to lose, mainly as it is Swansea's cup final and means more to them than us. We've scored 1 goal in the last 8 derbies, losing 6 of the last 8 and conceding 15 goals.

The atmosphere at home has never matched the Chopra game, even during the match.

I remember going to meet friends in a pub on the outskirts of Cardiff in 2019 when we lost 1-0 there. None of us bothered watching the second half.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: The difference between them and us?

Rare moment here, but I agree.

Those Championship seasons produced some really intense derby games. It had been a while since we'd faced each other at that level and both clubs were always in the promotion frame. I recall the 2-1 win at the CCS when Chopra netted with the last kick. There hasn't been a bigger derby game with so much at stake as that game. Both sides were on the up, they won promotion before us, which hurt us. We won the first top flight derby.

Since then it's been one way traffic. We go into the derby expecting to lose, mainly as it is Swansea's cup final and means more to them than us. We've scored 1 goal in the last 8 derbies, losing 6 of the last 8 and conceding 15 goals.

The atmosphere at home has never matched the Chopra game, even during the match.

I remember going to meet friends in a pub on the outskirts of Cardiff in 2019 when we lost 1-0 there. None of us bothered watching the second half.

That first away trip into the Liberty was lively, thousands of them were outside waiting for the buses with flares (trousers and the fireball things), and a huge police presence to keep fans apart they were very excited.

Quite different from the early 80s when there was free travel when you got off the train all you saw were Cardiff fans, things certainly changed over the decades.

It's definitely fading now, maybe a good win will bring some feeling back for us Cardiff fans.