Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

[Father Dougal]

No eric type stats but off the top of my head since he came we have beaten blackpool, Rotherham, reading, Birmingham, Bristol City and Watford (4 away wins and 2 home). All those teams are in the bottom half.

I don't think we have beaten anyone in the top half?

In a relegation battle if you could choose to beat say Rotherham or Sheffield United you would of course choose Rotherham every time.

Anything to read into why such a big difference? Historically cardiff seem to struggle v poor sides but this side seem comfortable enough with likes of Rotherham and blackpool. Let's hope follows same pattern v Huddersfield!

[Der Kaiser]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

I think the team has the grit to fight against crap teams, it's against anyone with an ounce of tactical and technical ability we come a cropper. That's how I view it, we certainly haven't lacked fight - it just doesn't do much against dynamic teams 9 times out of 10.

[RichardM]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

No eric type stats but off the top of my head since he came we have beaten blackpool, Rotherham, reading, Birmingham, Bristol City and Watford (4 away wins and 2 home). All those teams are in the bottom half.

I don't think we have beaten anyone in the top half?

In a relegation battle if you could choose to beat say Rotherham or Sheffield United you would of course choose Rotherham every time.

Anything to read into why such a big difference? Historically cardiff seem to struggle v poor sides but this side seem comfortable enough with likes of Rotherham and blackpool. Let's hope follows same pattern v Huddersfield!

The thing to read in to it is that the teams in the top half are better than the teams in the bottom half, Cardiff are in the bottom half, therefore are more likely to beat teams in the bottom half
Another factor maybe, but I haven't checked, is that we have played more bottom half teams than top half since Lamouchi took over, so have had more opportunities to win.

[TWGL1]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

Lamouchi has won 20 points from a possible 48. (42%)

The other two managers won 29 points from a possible 84 (34.5%)

If he has been here from the start of the season using the same metric we would have amassed 58 points , plus he would have been able to get them playing his way longer.

You could also argue that Lamouchi has achieved this pints total under most pressure and we the added burden of a fixture pile up.

[MacAdder]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

Lamouchi, in the very short time he has had here getting to know the players' strengths and weaknesses, seemed to target the games he could pick points up based on their position in the league and quality of opposition.

A few questioned the wisdom of this, myself included, but it seems that his approach has been vindicated.

The man deserves his chance and the fact that he has (as near as dammit) achieved his goal with two games to spare cannot be overstated.

[OurManFlint II]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

The thing to read in to it is that the teams in the top half are better than the teams in the bottom half, Cardiff are in the bottom half, therefore are more likely to beat teams in the bottom half
Another factor maybe, but I haven't checked, is that we have played more bottom half teams than top half since Lamouchi took over, so have had more opportunities to win.

Also, QPR and West Brom as 1 example, one was once a top half team and now a bottom half team and vice versa. and Shirley the championship table doesn't settle for at least 10 to 12 games, Jesus we were a top half team at one stage!

[RichardM]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

Also, QPR and West Brom as 1 example, one was once a top half team and now a bottom half team and vice versa. and Shirley the championship table doesn't settle for at least 10 to 12 games, Jesus we were a top half team at one stage!

One of the graphics on Sky last night showed Cardiff and Rotherham's league positions over the season. We were both near the top for awhile

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

Also, QPR and West Brom as 1 example, one was once a top half team and now a bottom half team and vice versa. and Shirley the championship table doesn't settle for at least 10 to 12 games, Jesus we were a top half team at one stage!

Squad depths, the stronger squads rise as the season goes on and weaker squads fade, our first eleven aren't bad, but our reserves aren't as good as the higher placed teams.

[North Cardiff Blue]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

No eric type stats but off the top of my head since he came we have beaten blackpool, Rotherham, reading, Birmingham, Bristol City and Watford (4 away wins and 2 home). All those teams are in the bottom half.

I don't think we have beaten anyone in the top half?

In a relegation battle if you could choose to beat say Rotherham or Sheffield United you would of course choose Rotherham every time.

Anything to read into why such a big difference? Historically cardiff seem to struggle v poor sides but this side seem comfortable enough with likes of Rotherham and blackpool. Let's hope follows same pattern v Huddersfield!

It's because he had us at the end of the season, we had players out and a weak squad, so we weren't able to beat the top teams with the likes of Collins, Abu, Robinson, Etete, Wickham and other top players out.


It's why teams like Man City can murder Arsenal at the end of the season.

[OurManFlint II]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

Squad depths, the stronger squads rise as the season goes on and weaker squads fade, our first eleven aren't bad, but our reserves aren't as good as the higher placed teams.

Agree, i always find it a funny statistic/measurement as everything is so fluid. It makes sense if you look with say 5 games to go and where those teams are in the table, but as a measurement over 46 i don't get it.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

We've won 13 league games. Discounting the opener against Norwich for obvious reasons, half of our wins have come against teams who were in the top half when we kicked off that game. Those sides were:

Birmingham City (1st game against them) - 4th
Blackburn Rovers - 6th
Wigan Athletic - 12th
Rotherham United - 12th
Sunderland - 12th
Watford - 12th

Birmingham was our 3rd game of the season and so the league table was barely indictive of the division or even any sort of form. The other games, with the exception of Watford away, were in the first half of the season and it's maybe worth noting that those sides, bar Sunderland are now in the bottom half.

As for our record against sides where they currently stand in the table, here's a breakdown:

1st - 6th: W 2 D 2 L 7 F 8 A 16 Ppg - 0.73

7th - 12th: W 2 D 3 L 7 F 5 A 14 Ppg - 0.75

13th - 18th: W 4 D 2 L 4 F 14 A 12 Ppg - 1.4

19th - 24th: W 5 D 3 L 3 F 13 A 11 Ppg - 1.64

That shows we've gained more points from sides in the bottom half than the top half by some distance.

Much of the reason for that difference is in our inability to score against the better teams in the division. Defensively we've been marginally better against sides in the bottom half (23 conceded vs 30 against teams in the top half). Scoring 13 against the top half but 27 against the bottom half is a big difference. We've failed to score in 13 of the 23 games we've played against teams in the top half so far but only 5 times in 21 games against teams in the bottom half.

[logic]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

Stats are skewed due to counting teams positions hen the games kicked off. Different numbers of games potentially played, different strength of schedules played.

Only meaningful way of measuring that is after the season is over.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

Stats are skewed due to counting teams positions hen the games kicked off. Different numbers of games potentially played, different strength of schedules played.

Only meaningful way of measuring that is after the season is over.

Yes, it's going to change greatly over the next two games..... :shrug:

[logic]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

Yes, it's going to change greatly over the next two games..... :shrug:

"half of our wins have come against teams who were in the top half when we kicked off that game"

So were you counting position from before/after Rotherham last night or at the time we played those teams? :shrug:

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Our record v bottom half under sabri compared to top half

"half of our wins have come against teams who were in the top half when we kicked off that game"

So were you counting position from before/after Rotherham last night or at the time we played those teams? :shrug:

You've lost me a little here.

I started by pointing out that we had beaten 6 teams who were in the top half when we played them at the time.