Official Ashes Thread

[Hilts]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

As much as I thought Stokes shouldn't have declared when he did, it's the missed chances that cost England the game.
Great stuff though.

Yeah I agree. I think Australia were rattled and if the chances were taken theyd have won.

It would have been a big win after such a declaration. You just can miss big chances like England did on a wicket like that.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

England play as if losing doesn’t matter. They lost their previous game (I don’t count the Ireland match) after enforcing the follow on and lost this one because their Bazball keeper missed some chances Foakes would have taken - we can now say that the declaration definitely didn’t work and they wouldn’t have lost if they’d batted on and scored the fifty more they could have managed with Root going the way he was.

I’m not saying England’s approach is wrong, but questions are going to start being asked if they keep on losing games they shouldn’t have (especially Ashes ones).

One last thing, another reason why England lost was that their number one spinner was largely incapacitated through the decisive part of the game on a turning wicket - that was just bad luck (although it was a gamble to pick Moeen when he’d not bowled in red ball cricket for a couple of years) and had nothing to do with Bazball.

[Hilts]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Moeens injury was bad luck but his selection was a gamble.

Also bit of bad luck Ducket and Crawley both going in between bad weather.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

England play as if losing doesn’t matter. They lost their previous game (I don’t count the Ireland match) after enforcing the follow on and lost this one because their Bazball keeper missed some chances Foakes would have taken - we can now say that the declaration definitely didn’t work and they wouldn’t have lost if they’d batted on and scored the fifty more they could have managed with Root going the way he was.

I’m not saying England’s approach is wrong, but questions are going to start being asked if they keep on losing games they shouldn’t have (especially Ashes ones).

One last thing, another reason why England lost was that their number one spinner was largely incapacitated through the decisive part of the game on a turning wicket - that was just bad luck (although it was a gamble to pick Moeen when he’d not bowled in red ball cricket for a couple of years) and had nothing to do with Bazball.

Haven't England won 10 of their last 14?

The declaration meant a result was possible. There were 6 overs left, with the tail and then it is a new day, Root has to get in again. The big mistakes are Anderson is so undercooked, Bairstow too. There isn't a front line spinner to step in for Leach, and not taking the new ball was mental.

Also, on Bairstow. He is a world class batter and I'm pretty sure that's the worst he's ever kept.

[chrisp_1927]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Haven't England won 10 of their last 14?

The declaration meant a result was possible. There were 6 overs left, with the tail and then it is a new day, Root has to get in again. The big mistakes are Anderson is so undercooked, Bairstow too. There isn't a front line spinner to step in for Leach, and not taking the new ball was mental.

Also, on Bairstow. He is a world class batter and I'm pretty sure that's the worst he's ever kept.

I'd argue they'd have been able to move the game on quicker without declaring. I think there were 6 overs left in the day when they declared, lost 2 overs due to it so the Aussies faced 4 overs. Bright blue skies, pitch not doing much and root pinging sixes into the crowd. Just let root carry on playing T20 style for the last 6. They could well have ended up with another 50/60 quick runs against what was a tired looking bowling attack. As it was , Warner and khawaja had to face 4 overs in good conditions, they were probably glad to get out for a bat. If it was September and cloudy , and the ball was swinging round corners it would have made a lot more sense

[Hilts]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Haven't England won 10 of their last 14?

The declaration meant a result was possible. There were 6 overs left, with the tail and then it is a new day, Root has to get in again. The big mistakes are Anderson is so undercooked, Bairstow too. There isn't a front line spinner to step in for Leach, and not taking the new ball was mental.

Also, on Bairstow. He is a world class batter and I'm pretty sure that's the worst he's ever kept.

It was the 1st day. The result was always possible.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

It was the 1st day. The result was always possible.

They won with 5/6 overs to spare. So if Australia had the same 2 innings, the result wasn't possible.

The declaration is a much better decision than some of the choices made in the last hour, and the non selection of Wood.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Haven't England won 10 of their last 14?

The declaration meant a result was possible. There were 6 overs left, with the tail and then it is a new day, Root has to get in again. The big mistakes are Anderson is so undercooked, Bairstow too. There isn't a front line spinner to step in for Leach, and not taking the new ball was mental.

Also, on Bairstow. He is a world class batter and I'm pretty sure that's the worst he's ever kept.

Disagree about the declaration, Root hit something like fourteen off the over before the declaration, so six overs of him playing like that might have seen something like fifty scored. A result would have been possible if they’d batted on as it was only the firSt day. I’m not arguing against Bazball, but there are consequences to playing it - you win games you shouldn’t have, but we’re now starting to see that you lose games you shouldn’t.

There’s also consequences to picking Bairstow as wicketkeeper (someone said on Test Match Special that it’s a few years since Bairstow has played as a test wicketkeeper and that his body shape had changed in that time - they weren’t surprised that his wicket keeping, which was never top class, had declined).

My point is that the whole Bazball thing seems doomed to failure to me because as soon as things start to go wrong, there’ll be influential people within the game down on it like a ton of bricks saying I told you so - even if England come back and win the Ashes playing like they have been for the past year, I can’t see it becoming the norm in test cricket in the future (if test cricket has a future).

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Disagree about the declaration, Root hit something like fourteen off the over before the declaration, so six overs of him playing like that might have seen something like fifty scored. A result would have been possible if they’d batted on as it was only the firSt day. I’m not arguing against Bazball, but there are consequences to playing it - you win games you shouldn’t have, but we’re now starting to see that you lose games you shouldn’t.

There’s also consequences to picking Bairstow as wicketkeeper (someone said on Test Match Special that it’s a few years since Bairstow has played as a test wicketkeeper and that his body shape had changed in that time - they weren’t surprised that his wicket keeping, which was never top class, had declined).

My point is that the whole Bazball thing seems doomed to failure to me because as soon as things start to go wrong, there’ll be influential people within the game down on it like a ton of bricks saying I told you so - even if England come back and win the Ashes playing like they have been for the past year, I can’t see it becoming the norm in test cricket in the future (if test cricket has a future).

England lost this game because they stopped attacking/playing Baseball. They had Australia 8 down, with 60 needed and stopped attacking. They scored enough runs to have it sewn up, and for some reason they didn't take the new ball and let them back into the game. England have made test cricket exciting again and they've won far more games than they've "lost". Nobody wins in Pakistan without doing what England did. Who cares about the "influential people" in the game? They all wanted the crisp tournament and let the IPL turn into a monster without any intervention. England were going at 5/6 an over for an entire day, their Bazball batting meant a result was possible, regardless of the declaration.

[Hilts]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

I dont understand the thinking of delaying the new ball after Carey went.

Problem for Stokes is despite it being a brilliant competitive game the declaration and that decision will be questioned as they lost.

Bairstow continuing behind the stumps , adding Wood and sorting out the no balls really all needed to be looked at whatever the result.

[StraightOuttaCanton]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

We just got Willow TV here in Canada and subscription is the equivalent of £4.50 a month, so I paid for 2 months. I’m really only interested in test cricket these days and the last 5 days were a great spectacle - love it. Great to watch, and both teams should be applauded. Much rather see a result either way than a draw.
The dinosaur traditionalist pundits will undoubtedly be critical but that was some pretty exciting stuff to watch

[Delbert]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Entertaining game but looking a bit ominous for England. Home advantage, won the toss and still they lost. Can’t see both Smith and Labuschagne not getting big runs in either innings happening again. The declaration looked a silly gimmick at the time and so it proved. Think Australia can only improve but can England? Wood and Foakes must start to have any chance.

[dandywarhol]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

Only an idiot declares on the first day of a test match in an ashes series.

[The Bloop]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

There’s also consequences to picking Bairstow as wicketkeeper (someone said on Test Match Special that it’s a few years since Bairstow has played as a test wicketkeeper and that his body shape had changed in that time - they weren’t surprised that his wicket keeping, which was never top class, had declined).

Sky showed an interesting comparison of Bairstows missed stumping and Carey's stumping of Root.
Bairstow's whole upper body had to move to try to catch the ball, as if his back was stiff and shoulders frozen, whereas Carey's arms and hands moved much quicker and independently to stumping Root.
I was quite supportive of Bairstows inclusion as keeper but I've changed my mind. Trouble is,the current squad has been picked for the first 2 tests, so barring injury, Bairstow will keep in the 2nd aswell.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Official Ashes Thread

I didn't realise Australia had won until just now as I had to take the wife to the hospital.

Fantastic result, one more win should see the Ashes retained.