This passing between our back 4

[BLUEAWAY TOO]

Re: This passing between our back 4

For me the issue is less the passing among the back 4, although I'm not sure what Runnarsson has done to deserve the reputation of a ball playing keeper, he looks like a total liability in that regard at least a couple of times a game.

The issue IMO has been that when it gets forward to the midfield, it just goes back again. Lack of movement and any creativity in the central 3 since Ramsey has been out has been a glaring issue.

That is absolutely the issue. There is no point taking risks at the back to then play a ball forward that gives possession to the opposition.

[BLUEAWAY TOO]

Re: This passing between our back 4

if building from the back means five or six passes b.etween defenders and midfield before going back to the keeper who ends up having to whack it upfield, as it does too often with us, then I'm against it. The thing is though that if you watch sides that play a passing game well, that hardly ever happens - yesterday's conditions only served to expose even more the various faults City squads have had for years when it comes to things like basic technique, creativity, flair and attacking movement

At the same time the oppositions defenders are having a leisure break whilst their forwards stand on the edge of our penalty area pinning us back.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: This passing between our back 4

Posted in wrong thread.

[Canton68]

Re: This passing between our back 4

Free kicks just inside our half going back to keeper and then we lose ball before we get it back to half way line!

[Tuerto]

Re: This passing between our back 4

It's done as a way of drawing the opposition out of their positions. If it works, and that's a big If, a team can take out a couple of opposing midfield players within a few passes. Notice that when it happens players just don't steam towards the player in possession, they're quite apprehensive about getting drawn in and turned. They usually squeeze on the third pass.

[KingOfSiamIAm]

Re: This passing between our back 4

There was an instance in the first half, during which we had spent a long period making so many passes between the defenders, midfield and then defenders, and keeper ad-infinitum... where our keeper had to actually pass then ball backwards to one of the two defenders that he usually passes to.

During that period of time, Millwall had gradually moved further up the pitch, so much so, that I would have imagined that every outfield player was surely in our half.

If the whole aim is to draw the opposition that far up the pitch and pass through them in a blinding passing counter attack... this was the moment.

Unfortunately, the play was so condensed in our half and our players are not Man City or Aston Villa, we ended up with each player having less and less control of the ball/situation and each successive pass put his team-mate under further pressure.

Eventually, the inevitable heavy touch from one of our players, presented the ball to a Millwall player, and the resultant scramble to whack the ball clear, saved us from conceding a shot at our goal.

I am all for playing the ball out from the back in a controlled way, but we need the players ahead of the defenders to move around into space to create a forward pass option... at least Rubin Colwill was providing that option in the second half.

[Tuerto]

Re: This passing between our back 4

There was an instance in the first half, during which we had spent a long period making so many passes between the defenders, midfield and then defenders, and keeper ad-infinitum... where our keeper had to actually pass then ball backwards to one of the two defenders that he usually passes to.

During that period of time, Millwall had gradually moved further up the pitch, so much so, that I would have imagined that every outfield player was surely in our half.

If the whole aim is to draw the opposition that far up the pitch and pass through them in a blinding passing counter attack... this was the moment.

Unfortunately, the play was so condensed in our half and our players are not Man City or Aston Villa, we ended up with each player having less and less control of the ball/situation and each successive pass put his team-mate under further pressure.

Eventually, the inevitable heavy touch from one of our players, presented the ball to a Millwall player, and the resultant scramble to whack the ball clear, saved us from conceding a shot at our goal.

I am all for playing the ball out from the back in a controlled way, but we need the players ahead of the defenders to move around into space to create a forward pass option... at least Rubin Colwill was providing that option in the second half.

Pretty much agree with all of this. It's about sucking the opposition in, creating pockets, angles etc, and breaking through a defensive line, basically turning the opposition, which is good as when that happens the game ceases to be infront of them and they are on the back foot. It's all about getting your opponents facing their own goal. We aren't very good at it at the moment, but Bulut isn't that puerile in respect of not allowing his players the 'out' ball, basically a long ball. Which is good news for us, and it allows the players to learn. I hope that we stick with it. With better players, hopefully we become better at doing it. Doesn't mean we can't mix it up though, and i think that we will. Winning the ball back quickly is as important. Good post though, can't argue with anything that you have said :thumbup:

[KingOfSiamIAm]

Re: This passing between our back 4

Pretty much agree with all of this. It's about sucking the opposition in, creating pockets, angles etc, and breaking through a defensive line, basically turning the opposition, which is good as when that happens the game ceases to be infront of them and they are on the back foot. It's all about getting your opponents facing their own goal. We aren't very good at it at the moment, but Bulut isn't that puerile in respect of not allowing his players the 'out' ball, basically a long ball. Which is good news for us, and it allows the players to learn. I hope that we stick with it. With better players, hopefully we become better at doing it. Doesn't mean we can't mix it up though, and i think that we will. Winning the ball back quickly is as important. Good post though, can't argue with anything that you have said :thumbup:

You make a good point about winning the ball back as quick as possible. It just made me reflect... that is what we had been doing since the start of Bullit's tenure, and I would say to great success.

However, in recent games I see that we have been letting the opposition have the ball more, and not press them so much. Probably understandable against teams like West Brom and Southampton, what with their better players.

However, yesterday against Millwall we stood off them and let them get all the momentum in the first half. It reminded me of the type of performance that is usually needed away from home at the end of the season, where we might need to dig in and get a point against the odds, towards promotion, against a team up for the fight. That type of away result usually also proves that the character of the players in such circumstance.

Unfortunately we weren't playing Millwall away near the end of the season, we were at home and surely we should be dictating the tempo of play.

In the end, the players did well to gradually get back into the game, through sheer will power, and once the crowd had something to cheer about, I could detect the Millwall players getting less confident when defending.

In the end it was three points, and to get three points when playing so badly shows the character of the players.

Just before we scored, I said to my grandson, if we win this, we are going up. Not (only) because I am stupid, but as we all know, we look back at certain promotion seasons and see results like this as the ones where this or that point was vital. Also, last season we would have lost that game without so much as a whimper.

I don't know why we have been pressing less of late, but we were good at it against Bristol and Swansea Town, so I can't understand why we wouldn't do it against Millwall. Especially after our manager expressed his opinion that Millwall are a more direct team, thereby hinting that they would be less comfortable in possession.

[Tuerto]

Re: This passing between our back 4

You make a good point about winning the ball back as quick as possible. It just made me reflect... that is what we had been doing since the start of Bullit's tenure, and I would say to great success.

However, in recent games I see that we have been letting the opposition have the ball more, and not press them so much. Probably understandable against teams like West Brom and Southampton, what with their better players.

However, yesterday against Millwall we stood off them and let them get all the momentum in the first half. It reminded me of the type of performance that is usually needed away from home at the end of the season, where we might need to dig in and get a point against the odds, towards promotion, against a team up for the fight. That type of away result usually also proves that the character of the players in such circumstance.

Unfortunately we weren't playing Millwall away near the end of the season, we were at home and surely we should be dictating the tempo of play.

In the end, the players did well to gradually get back into the game, through sheer will power, and once the crowd had something to cheer about, I could detect the Millwall players getting less confident when defending.

In the end it was three points, and to get three points when playing so badly shows the character of the players.

Just before we scored, I said to my grandson, if we win this, we are going up. Not (only) because I am stupid, but as we all know, we look back at certain promotion seasons and see results like this as the ones where this or that point was vital. Also, last season we would have lost that game without so much as a whimper.

I don't know why we have been pressing less of late, but we were good at it against Bristol and Swansea Town, so I can't understand why we wouldn't do it against Millwall. Especially after our manager expressed his opinion that Millwall are a more direct team, thereby hinting that they would be less comfortable in possession.

We've definitely gone of the boil. Not sure why, maybe the players have plateaued and Bulut has pretty much got out of them as much as he can. I can't really be to critical though. Hoping for an injection during january. I think that we need it :thumbup:

[2b2bdoo]

Re: This passing between our back 4

I think the issue is lack of confidence, obviously the idea is to bring the forward players of the opposition forward to make space which it does but the players look shot at the moment. They try, give effort but that type of game needs real belief. Oddly we played out from the back quite well under Morison with Wintle the key.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: This passing between our back 4

Playing a high pressing game has to be tiring, especially in a league where the fixtures come thick and fast, maybe we're just not capable of playing to the intensity we were in the first three months of the season any more?

[Dave Blue]

Re: This passing between our back 4

Playing a high pressing game has to be tiring, especially in a league where the fixtures come thick and fast, maybe we're just not capable of playing to the intensity we were in the first three months of the season any more?

I’m not sure when this intensity you speak of actually happened because I haven’t seen much of it. We are far too passive off the ball and far too slow with it. I honestly think that hasn’t changed, it’s just now a lot worse.