Scottish Independence

[light up the darkness]

Re: Scottish Independence

I'm not too sure. Have you been to Carlisle recently ?

I was sat in a bar with my son on a Saturday night looking out at the goings on in Carlisle centre and I observed that the local ladies who were travelling around in groups appeared to be enjoying a fancy dress evening.


The barman looked out and said “no...it’s always like this”

[light up the darkness]

Re: Scottish Independence

The West Lothian question is ne that has vexed Westminster politics since Enoch Powell raised it in 1977.

Elected representatives of Scotland should vote on matters that affect Scotland and on no other.


If Scotland choose to go in that direction then so be it and good luck to them except that if it turns to shit especially under that cnt Salmond and they knock on the door asking to be reintegrated they should be advised to fk off directly. IMO

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Scottish Independence

Getting independence carries no guarantees of success in Europe, neither is the collapse of the union , we could see a lot more wealth creation in England and Westminster if it didn'thave to fund Scotland, an interesting fact is 40 percent (£32billion) of state spending in Scotland is provided via Westminster, of which £25billion goes on pensions and social security.

They would have a huge shortfall some say 25 billion as they have big social spending commitments, if they ran independently and could only survive by hiking its taxes or reduce its social spending .

The emotion of independence versus the effect to Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland is something to that needs very careful consideration ,some may hate Westminster but there's a saying better the devil you know

I'd rather be the poor man of Europe but in control of our own destiny than be governed by people with no interest in Wales.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Scottish Independence

I'd rather be the poor man of Europe but in control of our own destiny than be governed by people with no interest in Wales.

Bingo.

[Moodybluebird]

Re: Scottish Independence

I'd rather be the poor man of Europe but in control of our own destiny than be governed by people with no interest in Wales.

Using that logic are we to assume that you are one of the "I'd rather play Rochdale every season than have my club run by seldom-seen billionaire owner" brigade ?

[lardy]

Re: Scottish Independence

Getting independence carries no guarantees of success in Europe, neither is the collapse of the union , we could see a lot more wealth creation in England and Westminster if it didn'thave to fund Scotland, an interesting fact is 40 percent (£32billion) of state spending in Scotland is provided via Westminster, of which £25billion goes on pensions and social security.

They would have a huge shortfall some say 25 billion as they have big social spending commitments, if they ran independently and could only survive by hiking its taxes or reduce its social spending .

The emotion of independence versus the effect to Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland is something to that needs very careful consideration ,some may hate Westminster but there's a saying better the devil you know

"we could see a lot more wealth creation in England and Westminster if it didn'thave to fund Scotland, "

They also "have to" fund Wales, so I'm baffled why you think this would be a positive for Wales.

[Divine Wright]

Re: Scottish Independence

I've always taken some pride in the harmony that exists between the Welsh, English and Scots. What Britain has achieved in that regard gives hope for a peaceful end to all those civil wars raging around the world. It's a good model, and it has been achieved in the face of centuries of hostility. I know we sometimes have a go at each other in sports and politics, but I never felt (just to show my age) that people like Denis Law, Nobby Stiles, George Best, Jock Stein and, yes, Mick McCarthy, were ever anything other than my countrymen.

I like our union. I hope it survives.

What is good about “the model” ?

Our natural resources generated loads of money yet very little of this money has ever been reinvested within our country. Just look at the state of our former industrial areas. Despite what some people would have you think, this is not an inevitability. Check out the Mondragon model to see what can be done in former industrial areas if things are done right.

Torvil and Dean winning an olympic medal isn’t going to put food on the table and provide you with a decent education and a job afterwards (without having to emigrate ). Neither is Westminster.

[Divine Wright]

Re: Scottish Independence

Why is Johnson, a conservative and a capitalist, so desperate not to give them another referendum if it would make such financial sense ? The emotion of maintaining the Empire ...or the Union, whatever you want to call it.

Voting independence would be emotionally gratifying but would also make political sense. If it didn’t, I wouldn’t vote for it. That’s also why I voted to remain. I’m not emotional about the EU, it’s flag or what it represents. It is just dumb not to be a part of that. .... I also think it’s not intelligent to cling onto the idea that westminster is king . There are better ways.

[lisvaneblue]

Re: Scottish Independence

"we could see a lot more wealth creation in England and Westminster if it didn'thave to fund Scotland, "

They also "have to" fund Wales, so I'm baffled why you think this would be a positive for Wales.

England would still have to fund Scotland for many, many years should they split from the UK.

Those on pensions or state benefits would claim that these would have to continue to be funded by Westminster as this is the system that people paid into in order to secure such benefits. Investments agreed for Scotland would likely have to be honoured by Westminster.

Over time the model would change but it would be very complicated.

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Scottish Independence

England would still have to fund Scotland for many, many years should they split from the UK.

Those on pensions or state benefits would claim that these would have to continue to be funded by Westminster as this is the system that people paid into in order to secure such benefits. Investments agreed for Scotland would likely have to be honoured by Westminster.

Over time the model would change but it would be very complicated.

They may claim that, but they would be wrong.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Scottish Independence

it was an idiotic decision to leave a huge trading partner on our doorstep by voting to leave Europe

Utter madness and stupidity , much of it based on ignorance , xenophobia and bullshit from the vote leave parties

And its going to come and bite us on the arse , big time

And Scotland leaving the UK would be a similarly stupid and wreckless decision , with long standing implications

As is Welsh independence

We know that the Welsh language was almost destroyed but its stronger now

We know that the UK economy over the years benefitted massively from Welsh coal , iron and steel and other heavy industry

But independence is not the answer

Being independent to join the EU is definitely the answer.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Scottish Independence

Why is Johnson, a conservative and a capitalist, so desperate not to give them another referendum if it would make such financial sense ? The emotion of maintaining the Empire ...or the Union, whatever you want to call it.

Voting independence would be emotionally gratifying but would also make political sense. If it didn’t, I wouldn’t vote for it. That’s also why I voted to remain. I’m not emotional about the EU, it’s flag or what it represents. It is just dumb not to be a part of that. .... I also think it’s not intelligent to cling onto the idea that westminster is king . There are better ways.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Scottish Independence

Using that logic are we to assume that you are one of the "I'd rather play Rochdale every season than have my club run by seldom-seen billionaire owner" brigade ?

Not at all. The football club is a private venture that whilst I support them it doesn't affect me every day.

If a billionaire wants to buy the club and run it as he see's fit so be it. I'll keep supporting the club until I can't be arsed.

Not quite sure how you came to that comparison.

[Moodybluebird]

Re: Scottish Independence

Not at all. The football club is a private venture that whilst I support them it doesn't affect me every day.

If a billionaire wants to buy the club and run it as he see's fit so be it. I'll keep supporting the club until I can't be arsed.

Not quite sure how you came to that comparison.

I think the comparison is pretty obvious but if you don't that's fine.

[Harry Paget Flashman]

Re: Scottish Independence

I think the comparison is pretty obvious but if you don't that's fine.

Then please explain it to me.

Is a seldom seen billionaire supposed to be Westminster?

Am I someone who'd cut my nose off to spite my face?

Is the billionaire (Westminster) milking the club (Wales /Scotland) for everything yet running it into the ground and not investing in its future?

Are we already playing Rochdale every week anyway but you think it's ok? Maybe without the billionaire we'd be a but further up the league.