Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

[MOZZER2]

Regarding of Manager next season

what do we do with Rubin Colwill ?

His best position ?
Do we build a team around him ?
Is he good enough for top level championship / prem football ?

Had more minutes this season than last and I,m still 50/50 his best position for starters .

What do you lot think ?

[TheBirchgrovePub]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

Should play at the top of a midfield 3 and have two midfielders behind him who can cover the defensive work but also pass the ball to get it to him. This will free him up to influence games

[Father Dougal]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

It's quite interesting listening to the post match wales reaction when fans trying to be positive keep saying in years to come we will have colwill and koumas together and wales Will just be fine with that talent coming through. That seems to be a mainstream view.

I can only assume those saying it don't watch him for cardiff city and are basing that on his assist for the under 21s v Lithuania.

[NYCBlue]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

We absolutely do not build a team around him. I don't think he's good enough for top level Championship/Premier League football. If someone wants to build a team around him, It needs to be in League 1 or 2.

[splott parker]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

The game passes him by, has some lovely touches on times but they are rather slow and laboured. There’s nothing high tempo about his game, saying that if we had a quick, high tempo player, the others would be admiring him open mouthed and stood still.

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

He’s played under a number of managers now and I’m not sure we are any closer to finding out. I think his general game has improved quite a lot this season.

The obvious position is 10 but I’m not sure he does enough as a 10. He could play in a midfield 3 but he needs to do a lot more work than he does currently.

I wouldn’t built a team around him no but when I look at this squad I think he needs to be starting most games. He offers more than most, I also like that he’s willing to try a difficult pass and always happy to take the ball he doesn’t go hiding like a lot of players.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

I reckon Colwill needs to go on a season-long loan to a reasonable League One club. His career here is getting silly. There is absolutely no chance of him developing properly unless he is a regular starter somewhere, and he's not going to be that here as things stand.

If he can go away and have a good season at the level below, there's a chance he could establish himself as a Championship player in years to come. But unless a new manager comes in with a totally different mindset, Colwill ain't going to be a regular starter here.

[The Prophet of Doom]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

He's way past the age of being a youngster developing, he is a fully grown adult (no joke intended). Players are old enough if they are good enough - Best, Owen, Beckham, Rooney etc.

It is so frustrating when a professional athlete cannot last or be allowed to play a full match. Is there a problem?

[Claude Blue]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

He's way past the age of being a youngster developing, he is a fully grown adult (no joke intended). Players are old enough if they are good enough - Best, Owen, Beckham, Rooney etc.

It is so frustrating when a professional athlete cannot last or be allowed to play a full match. Is there a problem?

Yes, he isn't as good as we all hoped he would be.

Couple that with what are now obvious physical deficiencies and a lack of speed of thought during a game and he isn't the answer to our complete lack of creativity.

[Trigger]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

At the moment he just seems like a massive luxury player without the output.

He undoubtedly has talent and moments in matches where he looks quality but he struggles to put that together.

Played a part in 32 matches and has one goal, zero assists. I know he rarely, if ever manages 90 minutes but he doesn't help himself, gets a start yesterday and as our creative player in midfield contributes little going forward.

I want it to work for him. At this stage of the season I'd happily see him start every match with his brother and ashford, start to plan for next season and really get a good idea of what they are about.

[MacAdder]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

It seems to me that if he was good enough, he'd have nailed a starting place by now not struggling for game time.
After all we aren't exactly blessed in the midfield department.

Perhaps he isn't as committed as the managers he's been under would like.

Could it be that he is disillusioned with his stop start career and not working hard enough.

I have to agree that a loan to a League 1 or 2 seems the ideal move.

[llan bluebird]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

As I read on another thread our manager is a Turkish Warnock without success. He is a system guy and Colwill doesn't fit in the system. In the cold light of the next day did Champions League level Ramsey do any more than Colwill yesterday?

I think at championship level there seems to be an issue with his fitness, perhaps that will be why he doesn't match up the early hype. He is just not athletic enough for this league. Until he proves he is a 90 min player then no one is coming in for him.

I think he needs to be deeper but our manager wants a 6-foot athlete almost center half in there, not someone genuinely comfortable with the ball.

He seemed to be a second striker at times yesterday and got lost. He isn't a Ramsey, who is (was) a CM but a rather attack minded one rather than a "10" like Tomlin, but that's what he has to turn into, a CM, not a winger or a "10"/ second striker. Only play one defensive CM and play 2 attack minded CM's but you are not a fancy Dan its a CM role and that hurts.......He and the club need to load him with the responsibility he has with Wakes U-21's

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

Some have been quick to write off Rubin Colwill, but I see some sort of comparison with another young attacking midfielder we had who signed for us almost 20 years ago now; club legend Peter Whittingham. Before I carry on, I'm not suggesting for a second that Colwill could become a Whitts, I'd just like to draw a few parallels.

Whitts signed for us when he was 22, so he was a year older than Colwill is now. Whitts also had Premier League experience, so had a far greater head start in his career compared with Colwill. In Whitts first full season at the club he failed to nail down a regular starting place, particularly during the first half of the 2007/08 season. There were rumours at the end of that season that Forest were interested and some fans would have been happy to have seen Whitts leave. He'd have 1 good game in 6, was criticised by some as being lazy. He scored 5 goals that season. He only scored 3 in the 2008/09 season when, again, he wasn't always a starter, making 10 appearances from the bench and not starting much during the failed promotion run-in.

It was the 2009/10 season that Whitts scored over 20 goals in all competitions and made a reputation for himself as one of the best free-kick and spectacular goal scorers anywhere. Whitts was 25 at the start of that season and, from then on, was arguably the first name on the team sheet for 6/7 years. Colwill is 21. If we never saw the best of Whitts until his mid 20s, then it is surely reasonable to suggest we might not see the same with Colwill for a few more seasons, until he learns more about the game and develops consistency. Whitts didn't have that consistency during his first few seasons with us.

I agree with TLG that Colwill needs to go on loan, ideally (for me at least) to a League 1 side aiming for promotion. I'll repeat that I'm not suggesting Colwill could be another Whitts, but that he still has time on his side. It's about how well he's managed. Part of Whitts success was Dave Jones giving him quite a bit of freedom from defensive duties so Whitts could concentrate on hurting the opposition. I think placing too many defensive demands on Colwill won't help him progress. He needs more freedom and patience.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

At the moment he just seems like a massive luxury player without the output.

He undoubtedly has talent and moments in matches where he looks quality but he struggles to put that together.

Played a part in 32 matches and has one goal, zero assists. I know he rarely, if ever manages 90 minutes but he doesn't help himself, gets a start yesterday and as our creative player in midfield contributes little going forward.

I want it to work for him. At this stage of the season I'd happily see him start every match with his brother and ashford, start to plan for next season and really get a good idea of what they are about.

You say “as our creative player in midfield” as if we are only allowed one of them. I’m not having a go at you because after watching us play in recent years, you could be forgiven for thinking that was the case. I think to be fair to Bulut, he has tried to wean us off the long ball game, but, essentially, we still have Warnock type “bread and butter” central midfielders built more for the dogs of war stuff which goes with a more physical and direct approach. Have we started a league game with two out of Colwill, Ramsey and Turnbull in the team? I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think we have and I don’t think we will under this manager.

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Lets Have a Sensible Debate -Part 1

You say “as our creative player in midfield” as if we are only allowed one of them. I’m not having a go at you because after watching us play in recent years, you could be forgiven for thinking that was the case. I think to be fair to Bulut, he has tried to wean us off the long ball game, but, essentially, we still have Warnock type “bread and butter” central midfielders built more for the dogs of war stuff which goes with a more physical and direct approach. Have we started a league game with two out of Colwill, Ramsey and Turnbull in the team? I stand to be corrected, but I don’t think we have and I don’t think we will under this manager.

I’m sure there was an away game where they both started in a middle three, I can’t remember the game now but we lost.

Edit
WBA away was the game.