Sensible Debate , Part Two

[Steve the Tea]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

Wonderful. What about the rest of the season? Or have my eyes been deceiving me?

83.% accurate passes for the 2023-2024 season. [Sofa Score]

StT.
<><

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

83.% accurate passes for the 2023-2024 season. [Sofa Score]

Fair enough. If Sofa Score says so, my eyes must have deceived me. Because I think his passing is woeful. A absolute joke at times for a midfielder at this level. He probably has good stats for his frequent three yard passes, but I’d love to know how they are over ten yards or more.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

Fair enough. If Sofa Score says so, my eyes must have deceived me. Because I think his passing is woeful. A absolute joke at times for a midfielder at this level. He probably has good stats for his frequent three yard passes, but I’d love to know how they are over ten yards or more.

His mid range passing is more accurate (89.2%) than his short range, however fbref defines mid and short passing.

I'm with you, though. I don't see much in him.

[Steve the Tea]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

Fair enough. If Sofa Score says so, my eyes must have deceived me. Because I think his passing is woeful. A absolute joke at times for a midfielder at this level. He probably has good stats for his frequent three yard passes, but I’d love to know how they are over ten yards or more.

For 2023-2024 season:
Accurate passes in his own half ... 89%
Accurate passes in the opposition half ... 76%
[Sofa Score]

StT.
<><

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

For 2023-2024 season:

Goals: 0

Assists: 0

Quality of play: garbage

(TLG on his sofa)

[llan bluebird]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

As an avid reader of this forum, I think TOBW has said for seasons all our midfielders are "samey" with tiny nuances

Ralls is destructive with a lob over the full-back as his signature (Warnock) pass
Wintle is destructive, better at defending head-on, with a sideways or backward continuity pass as his goto
Siopis is destructive, a thief ratting around the midfield with a sideways short pass as his signature

If you then add in four defend-first defenders and wide "forwards" who double up with the full-backs,you have to feel for those carrying any "attack"

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

As an avid reader of this forum, I think TOBW has said for seasons all our midfielders are "samey" with tiny nuances

Ralls is destructive with a lob over the full-back as his signature (Warnock) pass
Wintle is destructive, better at defending head-on, with a sideways or backward continuity pass as his goto
Siopis is destructive, a thief ratting around the midfield with a sideways short pass as his signature

If you then add in four defend-first defenders and wide "forwards" who double up with the full-backs,you have to feel for those carrying any "attack"

Add in Adams and Rinomhota who are both under contract with us for next season. Eli King was playing at the back for us in pre season and has always struck me as more of a defensive midfielder than an attacking one.

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

For 2023-2024 season:

Goals: 0

Assists: 0

Quality of play: garbage

(TLG on his sofa)

That’s a change in direction after questioning his passing lol.

In your opinion have you ever been wrong and can you provide examples, because it’s impressive how correct you are.. in your opinion. My favourite thing is how you quote part of posts to promote your point.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

In your opinion have you ever been wrong and can you provide examples, because it’s impressive how correct you are.. in your opinion. My favourite thing is how you quote part of posts to promote your point.

Like most people I’ve been wrong on countless occasions. The best example I can think of was Vincent Tan’s rebrand. Firstly, I didn’t believe any football club owner would be stupid enough to do something like that on a whim, but I was wrong. Secondly, I didn’t believe for a second that the vast majority of Cardiff City fans would willingly surrender their club’s identity in exchange for Malaysian money, but I was hopelessly wrong on that one too.

As for quoting posts, I only quote the bits I’m either taking issue with or directly addressing. I don’t see the point in quoting entire posts if you have nothing to say about the majority of what has been written. Doing so is pretty dumb in my book.

As for Siopis, if his passing really is of a high standard then I must have been watching someone else. As a rule he contributes next to nothing in an attacking sense and he frequently gives the ball away if he’s attempting to pass it more than a few yards. That’s the Siopis I’ve been seeing since he arrived here. But if some obscure stats website says differently and people want to believe he’s good on the ball, then fair enough.

[Swiss Peter]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

Like most people I’ve been wrong on countless occasions. The best example I can think of was Vincent Tan’s rebrand. Firstly, I didn’t believe any football club owner would be stupid enough to do something like that on a whim, but I was wrong. Secondly, I didn’t believe for a second that the vast majority of Cardiff City fans would willingly surrender their club’s identity in exchange for Malaysian money, but I was hopelessly wrong on that one too.

As for quoting posts, I only quote the bits I’m either taking issue with or directly addressing. I don’t see the point in quoting entire posts if you have nothing to say about the majority of what has been written. Doing so is pretty dumb in my book.

As for Siopis, if his passing really is of a high standard then I must have been watching someone else. As a rule he contributes next to nothing in an attacking sense and he frequently gives the ball away if he’s attempting to pass it more than a few yards. That’s the Siopis I’ve been seeing since he arrived here. But if some obscure stats website says differently and people want to believe he’s good on the ball, then fair enough.

Move on people say. But that exact thing (highlighted) broke the spell for me. I'm still angry about it.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

Those figures for Siopis prove where I was wrong in the past - back in the days under Russell Slade when we’d often be in the thirties when it came to possession, I’d preach that possession was everything. Since then, I’ve learned it’s not - for example, we had comfortably more of the ball (56/44?) than Sunderland on Friday for all of the good it did us and if you ever see a City possession figure in the sixties, it usually means we’ve lost. Passing without enough creativity like City do should be easy because there are few risky passes played, but the lack of basic techniques among some of our players makes even that look hard.
To use an extreme example, a player like DeBruyne could have a passing accuracy rate of one hundred per cent if he was so minded, but he plays many passes with a high risk of failure because he’s trying to be creative and open up defences. Siopis’ job in whichever side he plays in should be to win the ball for his team’s more creative players, but a typical City side usually has up to nine players who are, at best, only capable of playing the very occasional defence splitting pass. We didn’t need Siopis because we had plenty of his type already.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

Am I the only City fan who thinks Siopis is over rated and the sort of player we didn’t need?

As for Turnbull, I’d like to see a bit more of him before coming to a definitive opinion on him, but can anyone say that he’s done anything yet to justify his alleged transfer fee of £2 million or even a quarter of that sum?

No, you’re spot on with Siopis.

Re Turnbull, he’s painfully slow in every sense. Takes so many touches for a start. Again, he’s just as advertised by Celtic fans. Is largely anonymous and is one of the slowest professionals out there.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

According to who scored, Siopis gives the ball away 6 times a game. He makes 29 accurate passes a game.

I think he’s vastly overrated. He runs around a lot, gets brushed off a lot, gets bullied a lot and gives the ball away a lot. He started off well but he cannot play. He’s nowhere near the standard required of a promotion centre mid. Is he better than Gunnar? Given he’s been dropped for Ralls this season, I can’t see how he’s better than Ralls was in 17/18. People say he’s been brought down to our level, if you put Ampadu in this side, he’d been head and shoulders above everyone else, and given Ampadu is a CM (sometimes CB!) in this division, yes, the comparison is relevant. Or we could compare him to Ndidi, or Downes etc.

Bulut has vastly underestimated how good this league is. It is way more competitive than Turkish football and there is no way we are going to be able to buy our way out of this league worth players as good as Siopis and even Goutas. For a start, they can’t get into a terrible Greece side.

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

According to who scored, Siopis gives the ball away 6 times a game. He makes 29 accurate passes a game.

I think he’s vastly overrated. He runs around a lot, gets brushed off a lot, gets bullied a lot and gives the ball away a lot. He started off well but he cannot play. He’s nowhere near the standard required of a promotion centre mid. Is he better than Gunnar? Given he’s been dropped for Ralls this season, I can’t see how he’s better than Ralls was in 17/18. People say he’s been brought down to our level, if you put Ampadu in this side, he’d been head and shoulders above everyone else, and given Ampadu is a CM (sometimes CB!) in this division, yes, the comparison is relevant. Or we could compare him to Ndidi, or Downes etc.

Bulut has vastly underestimated how good this league is. It is way more competitive than Turkish football and there is no way we are going to be able to buy our way out of this league worth players as good as Siopis and even Goutas. For a start, they can’t get into a terrible Greece side.

Don’t disagree with that but sometimes you get what you pay for, Ampadu 7m, Ndidi 17m, Downes 12m. The midfield has been poor for some time and despite Turnbull and Siopis coming in we are no better at solving the issue.

[Pedro de la Rosa]

Re: Sensible Debate , Part Two

Don’t disagree with that but sometimes you get what you pay for, Ampadu 7m, Ndidi 17m, Downes 12m. The midfield has been poor for some time and despite Turnbull and Siopis coming in we are no better at solving the issue.

We are worse, as they’re clogging up wages and fees that could have been spent on someone else. Turnbull is now 4th choice. Siopis isn’t much better than Ralls or Wintle, he certainly doesn’t solve any problems.

We are in the world we live in, it’s not going to get easier to get out of this league. Siopis was described as a “gamechanger” signing. He is anything but.