Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

[ninian opinian]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

The CWU summed it up nicely.

“No tears when postmasters were tragically taking their own lives due to stress.

No tears when postmasters were being jailed.

No tears when postmasters had their whole communities turning against them.

Tears now are too late.

Paula Vennells must be held to account.”

[pipster]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

Ford may have been her boss as she was appointed Head of People at the FAW in 2020. I started to watch the inquiry this morning with Vennells but had to turn it off. I thought her apology was smug and self satisfying. The thing I can’t get my head around is why, somebody connect the fact that there were approximately 900 post masters/mistresses, who all of a sudden when Horizon was introduced, started to rob the P.O. I’m sure the Police, if they’d been involved, would have linked the cases and not taken forward any or very few prosecutions.

Vennells when asked said she thought the investigations and prosecutions were done by an external law firm with Police involvement. She didnt realise the Post Office prosecuted individuals personally.
Most of the Post Office higher management seem to have suffered from corporate amnesia - all presuming that someone else would sort it out (which is not leadership). Meanwhile the conduit between Fujitsu devs and the end client communications does not seem to be well mapped out.

As for Angela van den Bogerd - she appears like Vennells to have been appointed way above her level - to the point where does nothing apart from ask stupid questions and nod occasionally as she knows she isnt worth the money

[pipster]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

Just seen on the BBC News website, Vennells has admitted not telling the truth yo the Parliamentary Committee.

Did she say why ?

[pipster]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

The CWU summed it up nicely.

“No tears when postmasters were tragically taking their own lives due to stress.

No tears when postmasters were being jailed.

No tears when postmasters had their whole communities turning against them.

Tears now are too late.

Paula Vennells must be held to account.”

You would hope there is an option for corporate manslaughter charges here

[life on mars]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

The CWU summed it up nicely.

“No tears when postmasters were tragically taking their own lives due to stress.

No tears when postmasters were being jailed.

No tears when postmasters had their whole communities turning against them.

Tears now are too late.

Paula Vennells must be held to account.”

And the CWU...

CWU warns subpostmasters of flaw in Horizon system
Post by TrueBlueTerrier » 05 Nov 2015, 15:05

Communication Workers Union warns subpostmasters of flaw in Post Office Horizon accounting system

http://www.computerweekly.com/news/4500 ... ing-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The union that represents Post Office subpostmasters has warned of a problem with the Horizon accounting system at the centre of a long-running dispute

Post Office subpostmasters have been warned of a problem with the Horizon computer system they use for accounts, which can lead to cash shortfalls if undetected.

An email to members of the Communication Workers Union (CWU) branch representing postmasters, seen by Computer Weekly, was sent to advise them what to look out for regarding the alleged fault, which incorrectly duplicates payments.

This is a small but potentially significant development in a dispute over the Horizon system that has been running for years. The finding, if proved, could call into question Post Office claims that Horizon has no systemic flaws.

Post Offices use an IT system developed by ICL/Fujitsu Services, called Horizon, for their accounts. In 2009 Computer Weekly first revealed the stories of subpostmasters who had received heavy fines and even jail terms for alleged false accounting – which they blamed on the Horizon accounting system. The Post Office has vehemently denied this claim. (See timeline below for more on the dispute).

The alleged problem investigated by the CWU involves the process where subpostmasters transfer money from a core Post Office branch to a remote branch created to serve rural areas, known as an outreach, which is basically a branch on a laptop. These processes are known as remittances.

According to the CWU, branch payments can in certain circumstances be duplicated – in effect creating a record of money that does not exist, recorded by the system as being in the outreach branch. It would be the subpostmaster’s responsibility to make up this sum unless the duplicated payments are removed.

The CWU said that, in a case documented by investigators, a core branch transferred cash to an outreach branch and Horizon reduced the accounts of the core by the amount transferred. The outreach transferred in the amount sent and Horizon accepted the correct amount.

But Horizon did this four times, causing a loss of three times the actual amount sent. The discrepancy was for money that did not exist.

“We have evidence that Horizon has duplicated the accepting in of a remittance (on at least three occasions). This is despite the [payment’s] barcode having only been scanned in once,” said the CWU email.

The Post Office helpline – the Network Business Support Centre – and the IT helpline were contacted, but neither was able to help the postmaster, said the CWU.

Post Office department recognises duplication problem

Following a post on a web forum, another postmaster recognised the problem as something she had experienced in the past, and the financial department of the Post Office in Chesterfield was contacted on her advice.

According to the postmasters' branch of the CWU, the financial department recognised the issue and told the postmaster they would need to send a positive monetary change to the Horizon branch accounts to negate the non-existent loss that had been created by the duplication.

The alleged fault, if proved, would question the Post Office’s continued claims that there are no systemic faults in Horizon.

The Post Office denies system-wide problems with Horizon and stressed that no technical fault has been found to have been responsible for a postmaster being “wrongly held responsible for a loss”.

“[We have] robust back-office reconciliation processes to identify and address account balancing issues when they arise,” said the Post Office.

“The Post Office provides extensive support, including visits to branches, if postmasters need support about branch accounting or other aspects of running their branch, and we encourage them to contact us if they have any concerns,” it added.

“It remains the case that more than three years of investigations have not identified any transaction caused by a technical fault in Horizon which resulted in a postmaster wrongly being held responsible for a loss.”

Mark Baker, secretary of the CWU postmasters branch, said: “If we get complaints we have people with the skills to investigate the Horizon system on behalf of subpostmasters. In the process of doing this recently, we believe we have found another systemic flaw.”

Horizon 'systemically flawed' says Second Sight's independent report

The CWU claims this is one example of a glitch that could happen anywhere across the network, and is not restricted to one type of transaction or branch.

[SOXY BOY]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

Did she say why ?

It was something to do with the prosecutions, she claimed every prosecution was proven but that wasn’t the case.

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

Ford may have been her boss as she was appointed Head of People at the FAW in 2020. I started to watch the inquiry this morning with Vennells but had to turn it off. I thought her apology was smug and self satisfying. The thing I can’t get my head around is why, somebody connect the fact that there were approximately 900 post masters/mistresses, who all of a sudden when Horizon was introduced, started to rob the P.O. I’m sure the Police, if they’d been involved, would have linked the cases and not taken forward any or very few prosecutions.

It was nauseating

[light up the darkness]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

She as also employed at the FAW for a while

[PontBlue]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

They are all playing the incompetent card as it isn't a crime but I suspect most of them knew what was going on

[light up the darkness]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

IMO all of them deserve to be hanged.not just these two but all the other senior managers who enjoyed their well paid comfortable jobs.

If I recall correctly Adam Crozier previously Chief exec of the FA become Chief Exec of the Royal Mail Group,

So I Googled and in fact it was he who oversaw a controversial modernisation and redundancy programme and it was under Crozier's leadership that much of the Horizon computing systems errors and prosecution of innocent sub-post masters occurred.

When shall we see him court to hear about his role ?

[RichardM]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

IMO all of them deserve to be hanged.not just these two but all the other senior managers who enjoyed their well paid comfortable jobs.

If I recall correctly Adam Crozier previously Chief exec of the FA become Chief Exec of the Royal Mail Group,

So I Googled and in fact it was he who oversaw a controversial modernisation and redundancy programme and it was under Crozier's leadership that much of the Horizon computing systems errors and prosecution of innocent sub-post masters occurred.

When shall we see him court to hear about his role ?

Royal Mail is completely separate company to the Post Office. Horizon is nothing to do with Royal Mail or Adam Crozier

[PontBlue]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

Royal Mail is completely separate company to the Post Office. Horizon is nothing to do with Royal Mail or Adam Crozier

They only separated in 2012 so he is very much a part of this

[RichardM]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

They only separated in 2012 so he is very much a part of this

My apologies, you are right, and to answer @light up the darkness it looks like he has already appeared before the enquiry

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-68795663

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

Is she back tomorrow?

That was a car crash

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Paula Vennell Post Office Enquiry

Royal Mail is completely separate company to the Post Office. Horizon is nothing to do with Royal Mail or Adam Crozier

Just as well that he wasn't hanged.