Swansea's accounts

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Re: Swansea's accounts

I agree with Rjk, you could definitely make an argument for starting him in the cup final but you could make an equally strong one for not starting him, but it's turned into a stick to beat Jones with and I think some fans see it as clear cut as him not starting is the reason we lost

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Swansea's accounts

I really don't agree. you could see he was going to be a quality player but he was still a kid, and playing against a powerful Portsmouth side
of those games he had managed a goal against Burnley and one against chasetown.

and as we played ,4 across the midfield at the time we would have been dropping one of mcphail, Rae, Ledley or whittingham.

Rae could have been dropped. Pompey went with a midfield 3 and Rae's aggressive style was completely nullified.

A better option would have been to drop Hasselbaink and go 4-5-1. Whitts played on the right that day and had a bit of a stinker. He could have been given a freer role with Ramsey out on the right.

Of course, that would have meant Jones having a plan B.

[splott parker]

Re: Swansea's accounts

Rae could have been dropped. Pompey went with a midfield 3 and Rae's aggressive style was completely nullified.

A better option would have been to drop Hasselbaink and go 4-5-1. Whitts played on the right that day and had a bit of a stinker. He could have been given a freer role with Ramsey out on the right.

Of course, that would have meant Jones having a plan B.

Hasn't Robbie Fowler claimed that he was fit enough to play? He may have given Portsmouth a bit to think about.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Swansea's accounts

Hasn't Robbie Fowler claimed that he was fit enough to play? He may have given Portsmouth a bit to think about.

I think so. He barely gave Championship defenders much to think about. There was talk before the game that he might have been ready. Thankfully he wasn't.

[surge]

Re: Swansea's accounts

I agree with Rjk, you could definitely make an argument for starting him in the cup final but you could make an equally strong one for not starting him, but it's turned into a stick to beat Jones with and I think some fans see it as clear cut as him not starting is the reason we lost

Phil Foden is breaking through into the Man City team this year aged 20. There really aren't many managers who would have risked a teenagers development by starting them in the cup final.

But we don't need another stick to beat Jones with considering he was a manager acting as if Arsene Wenger had never come to England despite Wenger revolutionising English football from 1996 and DJ joining us in 2005.

Who knows how bad it was at other clubs but we know if those teams had treated pre-season training with any sort of respect they would have won promotion.

[Rjk]

Re: Swansea's accounts

I think so. He barely gave Championship defenders much to think about. There was talk before the game that he might have been ready. Thankfully he wasn't.

when he actually played he was still decent, just he played so few games.

[Rjk]

Re: Swansea's accounts

Rae could have been dropped. Pompey went with a midfield 3 and Rae's aggressive style was completely nullified.

A better option would have been to drop Hasselbaink and go 4-5-1. Whitts played on the right that day and had a bit of a stinker. He could have been given a freer role with Ramsey out on the right.

Of course, that would have meant Jones having a plan B.

well we can agree to disagree. I think a midfield of whitts, mcphail, Ledley and a teenage Ramsey would have been fun to watch with the ball but we would have been torn to shreds without it.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Swansea's accounts

Phil Foden is breaking through into the Man City team this year aged 20. There really aren't many managers who would have risked a teenagers development by starting them in the cup final.

I get all of that.

Perhaps I should put my opinion forward. Ramsey, even at that age, was clearly a very good player for us. He became a regular starter in a side that had turned around a dreadful opening 3-4 months of the season and his involvement helped get us close to the playoffs. He was a regular starter in the FA cup run, including at Middlesbrough. At the end of the previous season, Jones said he had a youngster he would have no problems starting games. At his tender age, he was still one of our best players. This is at a time when Whitts was still hit and miss.

Norman Whiteside was (not sure if he still is) the youngest scorer in both league and FA cup finals. At his age, he was a phenomenal player.

Out of the midfield 4 of Ledley, Whitts, Rae and McPhail, which of those were more talented than Ramsey at the time? It's a tricky question as they all had their pros and cons. Did they all deserve to keep Ramsey out based on ability? If you're answering yes, then I'd really like to know why.

Protecting a kid is a feeble excuse. Plenty of youngsters have graced cup finals. As it was, when Ramsey did come on in the cup final, we looked our most dangerous.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: Swansea's accounts

well we can agree to disagree. I think a midfield of whitts, mcphail, Ledley and a teenage Ramsey would have been fun to watch with the ball but we would have been torn to shreds without it.

It was anyway.

In the Leicester playoff semi final we had a midfield of Burke, McPhail, Whitts and Ledley. Last year, when someone pointed this out I thought that couldn't be true. It turned out that that quartet played quite a few games and was very successful. I looked at it and thought powderpuff, but it worked.

[Rjk]

Re: Swansea's accounts

It was anyway.

In the Leicester playoff semi final we had a midfield of Burke, McPhail, Whitts and Ledley. Last year, when someone pointed this out I thought that couldn't be true. It turned out that that quartet played quite a few games and was very successful. I looked at it and thought powderpuff, but it worked.

Those were the days eh?
Imagine having all those players able to pass the ball on the pitch at the same time?
That said we could play a very direct game when we needed to as well.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Swansea's accounts

I can see both sides of the Ramsey FA Cup Final argument. Portsmouth were a very big, physical team that could also play a bit as well, it would have been asking an awful lot of a seventeen year old to have been able to change the way the match panned out. - I think Dave Jones’ decision was an understandable one.

However, this was a kid who was the calmest player on the pitch when he came on and guided us to a narrow home win over Burnley while still a sixteen year old, who ran the show in his first league start against QPR, who coped easily and impressively in an away Quarter Final against a Premier League team and had played well at right back against Southampton in a game where he provided the assist for the only goal - you can’t help thinking that Ramsey would have coped fine if he had been in from the start against Portsmouth even if the outcome might have been the same.