Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

[the other bob wilson]

As clubs that we're making out they couldn't go on as they were a few months ago as they announced that they were off chasing yet more money are now spending nine figure (!) fees on players, I've had enough of the Premier League 21/22 even before a ball is kicked and, increasingly, I find myself being drawn to things like this;-

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2021/aug/13/hiring-a-dozen-analysts-at-hereford-is-a-first-but-data-is-not-just-for-big-clubs

Reading the article, I couldn't help but wonder if Hereford have a bigger recruitment budget in terms of non playing staff than City? I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did.

Always had a soft spot for Hereford, so I hope they're back in the Football League again soon,

[Rjk]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

data analysts seem pretty undervalued to me, so I'd be surprised if Hereford are paying much for them.

similar roles in other industry are much better paid than in football, despite this kind of thing potentially saving clubs millions.

Bristol Rovers recently advertised for a first team data analyst, with wide reaching responsibilities, setting up the direction and infrastructure for their use of data In a number of areas.
it was an unpaid position.

[blue lewj]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

Not sure on budget but I think they are quite forward thinking and realise what is needed, especially so when money is tight. You need this type of thing to keep the recruitment mistakes to a minimum.

I don't think our 'analysts' fall far outside of Mick bouncing things off TC, with the odd input from Mehmet and Choo and finally running it by Tan.

If anybody disagrees with that, rather than label me a Jack, tell me who would be our analyst at City?

[Rjk]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

Not sure on budget but I think they are quite forward thinking and realise what is needed, especially so when money is tight. You need this type of thing to keep the recruitment mistakes to a minimum.

I don't think our 'analysts' fall far outside of Mick bouncing things off TC, with the odd input from Mehmet and Choo and finally running it by Tan.

If anybody disagrees with that, rather than label me a Jack, tell me who would be our analyst at City?

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club-staff/analysis-administrative

they've been listed on the club website for a few years now

[blue lewj]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club...administrative

they've been listed on the club website for a few years now

And you think they're doing the same as Hereford prior to recruiting and that is influencing who the recruitment team sign?
I very much doubt it. Your Bacunas of this world do not get signed on the length of contract they were by a Premier League club if any analysis has gone into it.

Hereford looks a decent little set up. Didn't realise they'd got as far as Conference North.

[J R Hartley]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

https://www.cardiffcityfc.co.uk/club...administrative

they've been listed on the club website for a few years now

Another 'mare for Lew:hehe:

[Rjk]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

And you think they're doing the same as Hereford prior to recruiting and that is influencing who the recruitment team sign?
I very much doubt it. Your Bacunas of this world do not get signed on the length of contract they were by a Premier League club if any analysis has gone into it.

Hereford looks a decent little set up. Didn't realise they'd got as far as Conference North.

I have no idea about their level of influence, or the work they are putting out, most clubs are highly secretive about this sort of thing.
I can't imagine that Warnock would have placed much emphasis on this kind of thing, but really we have no idea.

[blue lewj]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

I wonder how much analysis went into the Marley Watkins deal?

If that is our level of recruitment analysis then I'm not sure it's working.

[J R Hartley]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/major-recruitment-overhaul-cardiff-city-19719249

[J R Hartley]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

I wonder how much analysis went into the Marley Watkins deal?

If that is our level of recruitment analysis then I'm not sure it's working.

What about Ryan Giles? Perry NG? Mark McGuiness? Ryan Wintle and James Collins on free transfers?

[blue lewj]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/major-recruitment-overhaul-cardiff-city-19719249.amp

Big changes to recruitment from Under 9s to senior.

Encouraging if you ignore players coming in and hardly being played before being sent out on loan and Marley Watkins type deals.

[blue lewj]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

What about Ryan Giles? Perry NG? Mark McGuiness? Ryan Wintle and James Collins on free transfers?

You've changed your tune.

The board were signing players without the manager's knowledge according to you, now they're making educated decisions with the manager having consulted analysts. Which is it?

And you are back off ignore as I found you were replying to my threads and being quoted anyway so there was little point in it.

[blue lewj]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

As for a mare, backing Harris and him being sacked 10 plus places below where you said the club would finish under him will take some beating. 😄

[FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

There is undoubtedly a strong use case for data analysis in football, but by the admission of even its biggest proponents, it's still pretty limited in terms of affecting the match result on a Saturday. There are simply too many variables and human factors that can't be accurately recreated in a data model (and is a big reason I guess why "older" coaches are more hostile to it).

The biggest challenge is finding the most effective and useful application for it, which is still an ongoing process in the industry as a whole. For instance, you can see clearly where it can make an impact in regimented sports like NFL or baseball, but the game of football is too non-linear and uncontrolled. That said, at the elite level, that 0.01% can often be the difference, so maybe it is worth the hours spent.

Of course, one area where it is proven is in recruitment, especially when used in conjunction with more traditional methods of scouting. Brentford are a great example of that. Things like xG are another useful metric, but even then there are debates in DA circles about what constitutes an xG and what doesn't.

So there is a role for data analysts in football, but I'm not sure they carry the kind of value that demands big bucks - YET.

[blue lewj]

Re: Analytics and recruitment at non league level.

JR, I could have mares on here daily but one thing I wouldn't do is follow you round like a stale guff having snide remarks for the best part of 7 months like you did to me.

I knew you were smarting but that is beyond.