WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

There was some talk a few years back of our u23s playing in Cymru Prem, but nothing came of it.
Not sure about that myself and the precedent it might set.

I understand what you mean. It's a shame though that we can't be more active in Welsh football without all the various football association politics getting in the way.

[Former Labour leader]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

I understand what you mean. It's a shame though that we can't be more active in Welsh football without all the various football association politics getting in the way.

I agree entirely. In principle having an u23 side in the Welsh pyramid may be beneficial on a number of levels.
Mind you, our current crop seem to be doing pretty well, with the right coaching.

[Rjk]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

Warnock makes the point about u23 football and it's ability to mould players with that bit of an edge needed for a young player to succeed. I wonder if he's got a point about that. Whenever I've watched u23 football it does have quality, but not that level of intensity that we see at pro level.

I can understand why Warnock would want the younger players exposed to a more physical game and playing against seasoned players.
we clearly weren't ever going to produce a player that Warnock would feel comfortable putting in the first team.
now the style has changed though we are far more able to accommodate them and perhaps the need for that experience is less important than developing their skill levels

[Citizen's Nephew]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

I agree entirely. In principle having an u23 side in the Welsh pyramid may be beneficial on a number of levels.
Mind you, our current crop seem to be doing pretty well, with the right coaching.

:thumbup:

[DubaiDai]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

Warnock often talks in extremes and some of his comments in that piece are a bit daft. However, I reckon people need to keep things in perspective and not expect too much from these kids. After all, City are fifth from bottom and have just emerged from a record-breaking run of defeats. Plenty of reasons for that and it's obviously not down to the youngsters alone, but by the same token it's not as if they've been sweeping all before them. It's very early days and the local rag's habit of branding them a 'golden generation' of academy players is not only premature but it's almost as stupid as Warnock's comments.

Appreciate your comments but a lot of fans seem to have an incorrect assumption that our so called youngsters have been partly responsible for our demise.
Prior to Morison coming in I don’t think our first eleven ever included any more than2 or maybe 3 youngsters.
Our continued failure under McCarthy normally included at least 8 seasoned professionals

[jon1959]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

It's very early days and the local rag's habit of branding them a 'golden generation' of academy players is not only premature but it's almost as stupid as Warnock's comments.

It may be a bit premature to talk of a 'golden generation' - as none of them have yet established themselves in the first team over a number of seasons or achieved trophies or promotions. But not very premature.

We have a squad that includes half a dozen Academy products with others queuing up behind. The minutes on the pitch column is racking up. Some may have been recruited into the Academy, others were born into it, but this season we have had Bagan, Brown, Harris, Colwill, Sang, Evans, I Davies, King, Bowen and T Davies appearing for the first team with 3 or 4 of others in the match day squad.

The u23s and u18s and younger age groups are flying. Cardiff City is providing a lot of players to Wales squads across all age groups and a few youngsters to the Ireland u23s. It is reasonable to be excited by potential as well as achievements, and we would never have had this number of youngsters breaking through in previous years even if the club was set up to give them a route through.

You are right about Warnock, though.

[NYCBlue]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

I have never had any faith in this board's decision-making until maybe now. But for all the stupid and wasteful decisions they've made in the past, I really don't believe they would have offered Warnock the job. Having said that, it would be nice to see the club come and say so.

[life on mars]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

I think they had no intention of re- employing NW

And I disagree with those whomaay owners and board are useless , surely the fact we have a crop of very good prospects is evidence in itself they have very good intentions and judgement that may pay huge dividends.

[NYCBlue]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

I think they had no intention of re- employing NW

And I disagree with those whomaay owners and board are useless , surely the fact we have a crop of very good prospects is evidence in itself they have very good intentions and judgement that may pay huge dividends.

:hehe::hehe::hehe:

[the other bob wilson]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

Warnock makes the point about u23 football and it's ability to mould players with that bit of an edge needed for a young player to succeed. I wonder if he's got a point about that. Whenever I've watched u23 football it does have quality, but not that level of intensity that we see at pro level.

It was always the case below first team level though surely? While I agree the old Football Combination was an improvement on the current system because City would play against sides with a nucleus of senior players and they would also face some of the top teams in the lands second strings, as someone who has seen hundreds such games in the past, I soon lost the naive expectation I had that the men in these games would play at the same intensity as they did for the first team.

In many cases, this was because they were under instructions not to over exert themselves as they came back from an injury, but, often the "old pros" would be disinterested because they knew the manager didn't rate them and there was virtually no chance of them getting back into the first team. I won't name the player, but I can remember saying at a game in the noughties that there must be scouts watching so and so because he looks like he's trying for a change.

It might change under Steve Morison, but, so far, the youngsters have not made up that big a part of the team. Yes, McGuinness and Giles are only just into their twenties, but although the former was at fault with a goal last week and has been unlucky with things like penalty decisions and deflections recently, he's in the team on merit because he has been better than Morrison and Nelson especially over the past couple of months. As for Giles, he's an established Championship level performer now.

I agree that it's difficult for Academy produced lads at the moment as they try to establish themselves as first team players in a struggling team, but we're not where we are because of this, it's because, in most cases, their seniors are performing a long way below the level that has made them regular selections at this level throughout a large portion of their career,.

I've heard Iwan Roberts say on EJFOF a few times that he thinks Rubin Colwill has been a stand out player for City in recent weeks because he's virtually been the only one in the team capable of providing creativity in the final third - the kids are bound to be inconsistent, but I'd say they're doing as well as can be expected. or better in some cases, given the circumstances.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

Appreciate your comments but a lot of fans seem to have an incorrect assumption that our so called youngsters have been partly responsible for our demise. Prior to Morison coming in I don’t think our first eleven ever included any more than 2 or maybe 3 youngsters. Our continued failure under McCarthy normally included at least 8 seasoned professionals.

I can understand why you believe the line I've highlighted, but it's not accurate.

Discounting Ciaran Brown, who will be 24 years-old in January and had already established himself as a first team squad member last season, seven of City's young players have started Championship matches during the current campaign. They are:

Joel Bagan (20), Sam Bowen (20), Rubin Colwill (19), Kieron Evans (19), Mark Harris (22), Mark McGuinness (20) and Tom Sang (22).

The following highlights the number of those youngsters who have started in each of City's 17 league games so far this season:

1-1 v Barnsley (H) - 2 (JB and MM)
2-0 v Blackpool (A) - 1 (JB)
2-2 v Peterborough (A) - 1 (JB)
3-1 v Millwall (H) - 4 (JB, TS, RC and MH)
1-2 v Bristol City (H) - 2 (JB and TS)
2-1 v Nottingham Forest (A) - 3 (JB, SB and MH)
0-1 v Coventry (A) - 3 (JB, RC and MH)
0-1 v Bournemouth (H) - 2 (TS and MH)
1-5 v Blackburn (A) - 2 (JB and RC)
0-4 v West Brom (H) - 1 (MM)
0-1 v Reading (H) - 2 (MM and SB)
0-3 v Swansea (A) - 1 (MM)
0-2 v Fulham (A) - 4 (JB, MM, SB and RC)
0-2 v Middlesbrough (H) - 3 (MM, RC and MH)
3-3 v Stoke City (A) - 3 (MM, RC and KE)
0-1 v QPR (H) - 3 (MM, RC and KE)
2-1 v Huddersfield (H) - 2 (MM and MH)

I think the perception that Steve Morison is giving the young players more of a chance than Mick McCarthy did has come about because the style of play has altered, which suits most of them better, and the fact that several have made significant marks during the last three games (Colwill and Harris scoring at Stoke, and Isaak Davies providing the cross for Kieffer Moore's winner against Huddersfield).

However, while McCarthy can be rightly accused of many mistakes during his time at Cardiff, I don't think under-using the youngsters is one of them.

As I've said previously, while the current crop of young players are clearly promising and it's great to see them involved in the first team, I firmly believe the talk of a 'golden generation' is premature and a bit silly under the circumstances.

[Rjk]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

I can understand why you believe the line I've highlighted, but it's not accurate.

Discounting Ciaran Brown, who will be 24 years-old in January and had already established himself as a first team squad member last season, seven of City's young players have started Championship matches during the current campaign. They are:

Joel Bagan (20), Sam Bowen (20), Rubin Colwill (19), Kieron Evans (19), Mark Harris (22), Mark McGuinness (20) and Tom Sang (22).

The following highlights the number of those youngsters who have started in each of City's 17 league games so far this season:

1-1 v Barnsley (H) - 2 (JB and MM)
2-0 v Blackpool (A) - 1 (JB)
2-2 v Peterborough (A) - 1 (JB)
3-1 v Millwall (H) - 4 (JB, TS, RC and MH)
1-2 v Bristol City (H) - 2 (JB and TS)
2-1 v Nottingham Forest (A) - 3 (JB, SB and MH)
0-1 v Coventry (A) - 3 (JB, RC and MH)
0-1 v Bournemouth (H) - 2 (TS and MH)
1-5 v Blackburn (A) - 2 (JB and RC)
0-4 v West Brom (H) - 1 (MM)
0-1 v Reading (H) - 2 (MM and SB)
0-3 v Swansea (A) - 1 (MM)
0-2 v Fulham (A) - 4 (JB, MM, SB and RC)
0-2 v Middlesbrough (H) - 3 (MM, RC and MH)
3-3 v Stoke City (A) - 3 (MM, RC and KE)
0-1 v QPR (H) - 3 (MM, RC and KE)
2-1 v Huddersfield (H) - 2 (MM and MH)

I think the perception that Steve Morison is giving the young players more of a chance than Mick McCarthy did has come about because the style of play has altered, which suits most of them better, and the fact that several have made significant marks during the last three games (Colwill and Harris scoring at Stoke, and Isaak Davies providing the cross for Kieffer Moore's winner against Huddersfield).

However, while McCarthy can be rightly accused of many mistakes during his time at Cardiff, I don't think under-using the youngsters is one of them.

As I've said previously, while the current crop of young players are clearly promising and it's great to see them involved in the first team, I firmly believe the talk of a 'golden generation' is premature and a bit silly under the circumstances.

McCarthy is known for playing the youth, it's the only part of that appointment that made any sense to me.

[Croesy Blue]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

I can understand why you believe the line I've highlighted, but it's not accurate.

Discounting Ciaran Brown, who will be 24 years-old in January and had already established himself as a first team squad member last season, seven of City's young players have started Championship matches during the current campaign. They are:

Joel Bagan (20), Sam Bowen (20), Rubin Colwill (19), Kieron Evans (19), Mark Harris (22), Mark McGuinness (20) and Tom Sang (22).

The following highlights the number of those youngsters who have started in each of City's 17 league games so far this season:

1-1 v Barnsley (H) - 2 (JB and MM)
2-0 v Blackpool (A) - 1 (JB)
2-2 v Peterborough (A) - 1 (JB)
3-1 v Millwall (H) - 4 (JB, TS, RC and MH)
1-2 v Bristol City (H) - 2 (JB and TS)
2-1 v Nottingham Forest (A) - 3 (JB, SB and MH)
0-1 v Coventry (A) - 3 (JB, RC and MH)
0-1 v Bournemouth (H) - 2 (TS and MH)
1-5 v Blackburn (A) - 2 (JB and RC)
0-4 v West Brom (H) - 1 (MM)
0-1 v Reading (H) - 2 (MM and SB)
0-3 v Swansea (A) - 1 (MM)
0-2 v Fulham (A) - 4 (JB, MM, SB and RC)
0-2 v Middlesbrough (H) - 3 (MM, RC and MH)
3-3 v Stoke City (A) - 3 (MM, RC and KE)
0-1 v QPR (H) - 3 (MM, RC and KE)
2-1 v Huddersfield (H) - 2 (MM and MH)

I think the perception that Steve Morison is giving the young players more of a chance than Mick McCarthy did has come about because the style of play has altered, which suits most of them better, and the fact that several have made significant marks during the last three games (Colwill and Harris scoring at Stoke, and Isaak Davies providing the cross for Kieffer Moore's winner against Huddersfield).

However, while McCarthy can be rightly accused of many mistakes during his time at Cardiff, I don't think under-using the youngsters is one of them.

As I've said previously, while the current crop of young players are clearly promising and it's great to see them involved in the first team, I firmly believe the talk of a 'golden generation' is premature and a bit silly under the circumstances.

Depends how you define golden generation I suppose. For a club that hasn’t produced an academy product in 10 years surely getting 5+ in at once could be considered a golden generation.

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

We've only got about a dozen outfield players in our squad over the age of 22. Whoever was our manager this season would have had to use the young players.

[The Lone Gunman]

Re: WARNOCK - was he really offered the job ?

Depends how you define golden generation I suppose. For a club that hasn’t produced an academy product in 10 years surely getting 5+ in at once could be considered a golden generation.

Back in 2012/13, the squad that won the Championship included 20 year-old Ben Nugent, who made 7 (+5) league appearances.

In 2013/14, Declan John broke into the team as an 18 year-old and made 16 (+4) appearances in the Premier League.

The fact that those two made a mark at an early age but never really established themselves here highlights how difficult it can be for young players to progress. Ben Nugent never played for the club again after those promising appearances in 2012/13 and is now at Gloucester in the National League North, while Declan John ended up making at total of 27 (+15) league appearances for City before moving on. He's now at Bolton in League One.