Christmas

[Rjk]

Re: Christmas

Personally, I think Christmas presents should only be for children. We all receive crap we have no interest in but that other people think we would like and we reciprocate similarly - and most of us would have already bought stuff we really wanted. I'm an atheist but it's a terribly vulgar consumer fest for me.
If you aren't primarily thinking about the baby Jesus simply look at it as a time to spend time with the people you love.
End of sermon

my ex used to go crazy for Christmas and expect numerous very expensive presents. the new Mrs rjk is from a culture that doesn't celebrate Christmas. she'll tell me not to get her anything and she doesn't get me anything, and frankly it is a much better situation

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Christmas

Personally, I think Christmas presents should only be for children. We all receive crap we have no interest in but that other people think we would like and we reciprocate similarly - and most of us would have already bought stuff we really wanted. I'm an atheist but it's a terribly vulgar consumer fest for me.
If you aren't primarily thinking about the baby Jesus simply look at it as a time to spend time with the people you love.
End of sermon

Xmas is bollocks

[truthpaste]

Re: Christmas

Personally, I think Christmas presents should only be for children. We all receive crap we have no interest in but that other people think we would like and we reciprocate similarly - and most of us would have already bought stuff we really wanted. I'm an atheist but it's a terribly vulgar consumer fest for me.
If you aren't primarily thinking about the baby Jesus simply look at it as a time to spend time with the people you love.
End of sermon

Personally, I think Christmas presents should only be for children. We all receive crap we have no interest in but that other people think we would like and we reciprocate similarly - and most of us would have already bought stuff we really wanted. I'm an atheist but it's a terribly vulgar consumer fest for me.
If you aren't primarily thinking about the baby Jesus simply look at it as a time to spend time with the people you love.
End of sermon

People trapped in meaningless man-made traditions which have zilch to do with the birth of Christ. I agree with you.
All I would add is this; children like facts - tell them this is NOT the time of year that Christ was born and that it is an official birthday - just like the Queen has an official birthday which isn't her actual birthday.
Also, now that we have plenty of excellent star charting software available (much of it free online) that we can actually look back and see what was seen in the sky in the years and months leading up to the actual event, which all tie in perfectly with each of the 9 Bible references to the 'star' that was seen before His birth.

This video > THE STAR OF BETHLEHEM < provides all the detail which you will need, and those with limited time can start from 31 minutes into the presentation. NB: All the details in the video can be verified on any decent astronomy programme such as this >> Stellarium.

[The Bloop]

Re: Christmas

When was he born then? I dont think the shepherds would have been watching their flocks in the middle of winter, so I'm guessing it was a few months either side?

[NottinghamBlue]

Re: Christmas

https://www.specsavers.co.uk/hearing/hearing-aids Specsavers do them believe it or not, free test too

You could spend 1,500'ish or get them for nothing on the NHS.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Christmas

People trapped in meaningless man-made traditions which have zilch to do with the birth of Christ. I agree with you.
All I would add is this; children like facts - tell them this is NOT the time of year that Christ was born and that it is an official birthday - just like the Queen has an official birthday which isn't her actual birthday.
Also, now that we have plenty of excellent star charting software available (much of it free online) that we can actually look back and see what was seen in the sky in the years and months leading up to the actual event, which all tie in perfectly with each of the 9 Bible references to the 'star' that was seen before His birth.

This video > THE STAR OF BETHLEHEM < provides all the detail which you will need, and those with limited time can start from 31 minutes into the presentation. NB: All the details in the video can be verified on any decent astronomy programme such as this >> Stellarium.

Aha, the snake charmer is back!

[dembethewarrior]

Re: Christmas

Christmas has evolved into a give/buy fest.

People don't even pretend it's about Jesus or religion anymore.

I won't stop buying my daughter nice gifts at Xmas just because a few old blokes on CCMB look down their noses at it.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Christmas

In a sense we get the Christmas we deserve. It's no good moaning about the expense of it all or crowded shops or road congestion or unwanted presents or houses with illuminated Santa Claus's on the roofs when what was originally a simple Christian event (the Christ Mass) has been seized upon as a huge money making opportunity in which we, whether we like it or not, are all impacted by it.

The Jehovah Witnesses (I am not one BTW) do not celebrate the birth of Jesus per se as they see it as the extension of a pagan festival and that nowhere in the New Testament is there a request that we should do so, which is fair enough. They overlook the fact though that December 25th is simply an official birthday as the precise time of his birth is not recorded. As a Christian it would not bother me at all if his birthday was shifted to say the 25th September but somehow I don't think that would go down too well in the world of commerce!

Hence the JW's have no involvement in the whole “Christmas thing” which must require a great deal of will power in these consumerist times and I admire them for that. They would obviously not condone my actions as a Christian who sends Christmas cards and buys presents for our grandchildren (we have a “no presents thank you” amnesty with other members of the family). My attitude is that as long as this does not overshadow and diminish the true meaning of Christmas, then I am easy with this.

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Christmas

Christmas has evolved into a give/buy fest.

People don't even pretend it's about Jesus or religion anymore.

I won't stop buying my daughter nice gifts at Xmas just because a few old blokes on CCMB look down their noses at it.

Nobody suggests that you shouldn't do, old fruit. One can express one's own sentiments about a subject on a message board without imploring others to follow suit.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Christmas

Christmas has evolved into a give/buy fest.

People don't even pretend it's about Jesus or religion anymore.

I won't stop buying my daughter nice gifts at Xmas just because a few old blokes on CCMB look down their noses at it.

By people I presume you mean most people?

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Christmas

In a sense we get the Christmas we deserve. It's no good moaning about the expense of it all or crowded shops or road congestion or unwanted presents or houses with illuminated Santa Claus's on the roofs when what was originally a simple Christian event (the Christ Mass) has been seized upon as a huge money making opportunity in which we, whether we like it or not, are all impacted by it.

The Jehovah Witnesses (I am not one BTW) do not celebrate the birth of Jesus per se as they see it as the extension of a pagan festival and that nowhere in the New Testament is there a request that we should do so, which is fair enough. They overlook the fact though that December 25th is simply an official birthday as the precise time of his birth is not recorded. As a Christian it would not bother me at all if his birthday was shifted to say the 25th September but somehow I don't think that would go down too well in the world of commerce!

Hence the JW's have no involvement in the whole “Christmas thing” which must require a great deal of will power in these consumerist times and I admire them for that. They would obviously not condone my actions as a Christian who sends Christmas cards and buys presents for our grandchildren (we have a “no presents thank you” amnesty with other members of the family). My attitude is that as long as this does not overshadow and diminish the true meaning of Christmas, then I am easy with this.

The 25th of December was when Ancient Rome celebrated the Winter Solstice and Christianity subsequently piggybacked that date.

[bobh]

Re: Christmas

When was he born then? I dont think the shepherds would have been watching their flocks in the middle of winter, so I'm guessing it was a few months either side?

I believe the latest estimates by bible scholars put the birth in autumn, but I (and they) could be wrong.
For sure, we don't mark the years as time since his birth or death, but the current system of BC / AD was decided by some clerics at the council of Nicea, in what became 325AD - but many people say that they messed things about for their own benefit

[Taunton Blue Genie]

Re: Christmas

I believe the latest estimates by bible scholars put the birth in autumn, but I (and they) could be wrong.
For sure, we don't mark the years as time since his birth or death, but the current system of BC / AD was decided by some clerics at the council of Nicea, in what became 325AD - but many people say that they messed things about for their own benefit

It is not even know what year he was born in.

[Gofer Blue]

Re: Christmas

It is not even know what year he was born in.

Why should the precise date matter anyway?

Nice throwaway comment by bobh BTW "but many people say that they messed things about for their own benefit" For what benefit might that be I wonder? And who are the many?

[dembethewarrior]

Re: Christmas

Nobody suggests that you shouldn't do, old fruit. One can express one's own sentiments about a subject on a message board without imploring others to follow suit.

I'm sire you know what I was getting at.