Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

[Eric the Half a Bee]

When McCarthy took over he soon decided to play 3 centre backs, probably as a way of stopping us conceding goals, particularly soft, early goals.

Looking back, much of his initial success came because of the energy levels we played with and the hard work we did in pressing opponents. Gradually our season petered out and our energy levels dropped, our intenisty and our pressing dropped off.

One thing that has barely been considered was whether there was ever a need to play 3 centre backs in the first place. Morrison and Nelson were a decent partnership and knew each other's roles. Now we play a back 3, Morrison looks lost. He's played hundreds of games in a back two and so playing in a back 3 must still feel unusual.

Is it time to go back to a back two with full backs?

[SLUDGE FACTORY]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

When McCarthy took over he soon decided to play 3 centre backs, probably as a way of stopping us conceding goals, particularly soft, early goals.

Looking back, much of his initial success came because of the energy levels we played with and the hard work we did in pressing opponents. Gradually our season petered out and our energy levels dropped, our intenisty and our pressing dropped off.

One thing that has barely been considered was whether there was ever a need to play 3 centre backs in the first place. Morrison and Nelson were a decent partnership and knew each other's roles. Now we play a back 3, Morrison looks lost. He's played hundreds of games in a back two and so playing in a back 3 must still feel unusual.

Is it time to go back to a back two with full backs?

We don't have quality at left and right back

If we did we could play with two centre backs

But we don't so 3 is best imo

[Rjk]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

I like the 3-4-3 / 3-5-2 formations - never really made sense the way McCarthy wanted to play it, but Morison is on the right track I think.

I think the problems we have now are simply down to having less quality than previously.
and some of the older players seem to have started to decline.
imagine this formation with a fit and inform Tomlin pulling the strings, or a Harry Wilson - or even a Sheji Ojo
or a younger Morrison and Bamba as part of the back 3.

many teams are playing with 3 at the back these days and it is not without reason

[Tuerto]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

Three at the back so that Morison can play wing backs. If we to a flat back four then he wont be able to do that, he'd push three in the middle and one on the left and the right of them with a lone striker. I really don't know, although maybe Eric is on to something when he says that Morrison isn't as comfortable in a back three, or maybe he's just got old!

[wildbill]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

I think today our problem was having no centrebacks

[2b2bdoo]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

Issue is we have very few options especially in the wide areas.

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

The third centre-back is a wasted shirt at the moment. We're not difficult to score against and the only one who offers anything in possession is McGuinness. I don't see why we couldn't play an extra midfielder sitting in front of two centre-backs and still get our full-backs high up the pitch when we have the ball.

[Trigger]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

I'm not a fan of it, we don't have the players for it in my opinion, clearly others including the managers feel differently.

[City123]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

I don't think the current group of players are set up for it, the centre backs aren't comfortable enough on the ball an. I think a back 4 may suit us better

Smithies

Ng McGuinness Flint Giles

Bowen/Pack Ralls

Davies Colwill Evans

Moore

[Rjk]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

The third centre-back is a wasted shirt at the moment. We're not difficult to score against and the only one who offers anything in possession is McGuinness. I don't see why we couldn't play an extra midfielder sitting in front of two centre-backs and still get our full-backs high up the pitch when we have the ball.

don't think of it as an extra defender, think of it as an extra midfielder, 3 at the back instead of 4, allowing the wingbacks to get forward and be a major attacking outlet.
with 4 at the back full backs occasionally get forward but typically one or the other . the idea with this formation is to get both of them up the pitch and attack with 5 players - one in each of the traditional channels (roughly :winger, inside left, center forward l, inside right, winger) which stretches the defence.
every formation has its strengths and weaknesses, but I like the principles behind this one. and when it is done well it is very good to watch

[Hilts]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

When McCarthy took over he soon decided to play 3 centre backs, probably as a way of stopping us conceding goals, particularly soft, early goals.

Looking back, much of his initial success came because of the energy levels we played with and the hard work we did in pressing opponents. Gradually our season petered out and our energy levels dropped, our intenisty and our pressing dropped off.

One thing that has barely been considered was whether there was ever a need to play 3 centre backs in the first place. Morrison and Nelson were a decent partnership and knew each other's roles. Now we play a back 3, Morrison looks lost. He's played hundreds of games in a back two and so playing in a back 3 must still feel unusual.

Is it time to go back to a back two with full backs?

No. We havent got a left back for starters.

[the other bob wilson]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

I only caught a few minutes of Call Rob this evening, but one thing I did hear was x Jack striker Rory Fallon saying you need some “super quick” centrebacks to play three at the back well - my reaction to that was to think “ah, that explains a lot about City this season”. My own view is that Morrison and Nelson especially are having poor seasons and would be if we were playing with a back four - they’re not playing like they are because we have an extra centre back.

[Rjk]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

I only caught a few minutes of Call Rob this evening, but one thing I did hear was x Jack striker Rory Fallon saying you need some “super quick” centrebacks to play three at the back well - my reaction to that was to think “ah, that explains a lot about City this season”. My own view is that Morrison and Nelson especially are having poor seasons and would be if we were playing with a back four - they’re not playing like they are because we have an extra centre back.

I think even with a back 4 you need one of the 2 centre backs needs to have a bit of pace about them, as we've seen a few times over the years with various incompatible partnerships.
take away the fullbacks and it becomes even more vital.
I think it's why you often see converted fullbacks doing well in a back 3 -think Kyle Walker for man city/England.
Nelson has performed that role.for.us recently, but it clearly isn't working that well this season.

it is also usually said that you need someone who is adept at passing the ball into midfield, and someone who can bring the ball out when space opens up as well, bit I think those have more to do with how successful it is with the ball rather than without it

[Sloop_Jon_Bee]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

Our CBs are extremely slow paced (except Mcguinness maybe) , which makes us extremely vulnerable. I don't know what the answer for this problem is. Maybe go back to a 4 at the back with proper LB and RB Bagan and Ng maybe, and use Giles as wide midfield/out and out winger.
Spedger

[LeningradCowboy]

Re: Is having 3 centre backs our problem?

I think even with a back 4 you need one of the 2 centre backs needs to have a bit of pace about them, as we've seen a few times over the years with various incompatible partnerships.
take away the fullbacks and it becomes even more vital.
I think it's why you often see converted fullbacks doing well in a back 3 -think Kyle Walker for man city/England.
Nelson has performed that role.for.us recently, but it clearly isn't working that well this season.

it is also usually said that you need someone who is adept at passing the ball into midfield, and someone who can bring the ball out when space opens up as well, bit I think those have more to do with how successful it is with the ball rather than without it

Remember when Warnock decided to play Flint and Morrison together at the start of the 2019/20 season? After we conceded three goals at Wigan on the opening day, his response was to stop them pushing any higher up the pitch than the edge of our penalty area so they couldn't get beaten by balls over the top!