17,384 Million Pounds

[JamesWales]

That's what the UK borrowed in just thirty days of November 2021.

Seventeen thousand million pounds.

That's £579,000,000 a day. £24,000,000 an hour. £402,000 a minute. £7,000 a second.

Merry Christmas one and all!

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/government-budget-value

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

That's what the UK borrowed in just thirty days of November 2021.

Seventeen thousand million pounds.

That's £579,000,000 a day. £24,000,000 an hour. £402,000 a minute. £7,000 a second.

Merry Christmas one and all!

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...t-budget-value

No need to worry about high interest rates for a couple of decades

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

That's what the UK borrowed in just thirty days of November 2021.

Seventeen thousand million pounds.

That's £579,000,000 a day. £24,000,000 an hour. £402,000 a minute. £7,000 a second.

Merry Christmas one and all!

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...t-budget-value

That's over 10 times what we were borrowing at the time of the 2010 general election, when a Conservative party in opposition said we were borrowing too much and went on an austerity drive.

So, for all the jobs that were lost due to austerity, the services we lost due to austerity, the pay freezes that affected many people due to austerity, and we're borrowing 10 times fecking more? Even with the cost of Covid, any claims that the Tories are the only party who know how to run the economy must be filed under 'Total Bullshit'.

[JamesWales]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

That's over 10 times what we were borrowing at the time of the 2010 general election, when a Conservative party in opposition said we were borrowing too much and went on an austerity drive.

So, for all the jobs that were lost due to austerity, the services we lost due to austerity, the pay freezes that affected many people due to austerity, and we're borrowing 10 times fecking more? Even with the cost of Covid, any claims that the Tories are the only party who know how to run the economy must be filed under 'Total Bullshit'.

I genuinely don’t think there is any party politics here, as all would have done broadly the same.

But in May 2010, we borrowed £13.6bn, so not a huge difference, certainly not 10 fold. From 2008 to 2010 there was a big increase in borrowing, which slowly and successfully (finance wise) was reduced until Covid hit

But yeah, whatever financial benefits were gained from the years of austerity have certainly be lost due to Covid. As a Quiet Monkfish says, thankfully interest rates are very low.

I just find the figures extraordinary really.

[A Quiet Monkfish]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

That's over 10 times what we were borrowing at the time of the 2010 general election, when a Conservative party in opposition said we were borrowing too much and went on an austerity drive.

So, for all the jobs that were lost due to austerity, the services we lost due to austerity, the pay freezes that affected many people due to austerity, and we're borrowing 10 times fecking more? Even with the cost of Covid, any claims that the Tories are the only party who know how to run the economy must be filed under 'Total Bullshit'.

It is bullshit, as is the perpetual claim that the NHS is 'safer' under Labour.

[Rjk]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

I genuinely don’t think there is any party politics here, as all would have done broadly the same.

But in May 2010, we borrowed £13.6bn, so not a huge difference, certainly not 10 fold. From 2008 to 2010 there was a big increase in borrowing, which slowly and successfully (finance wise) was reduced until Covid hit

But yeah, whatever financial benefits were gained from the years of austerity have certainly be lost due to Covid. As a Quiet Monkfish says, thankfully interest rates are very low.

I just find the figures extraordinary really.

austerity was certainly de rigeur at the time, not only in this country, but many nations adopted some level of it.
lots of the same economists who were pushing for it now think in many cases it significantly delayed the recovery.

these days it isn't nearly as much in favour as an approach.

[delmbox]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

That's what the UK borrowed in just thirty days of November 2021.

Seventeen thousand million pounds.

That's £579,000,000 a day. £24,000,000 an hour. £402,000 a minute. £7,000 a second.

Merry Christmas one and all!

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...t-budget-value

Isn't that 17 billion?

[Rjk]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

Isn't that 17 billion?

yes, weird way of writing it

[JamesWales]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

Isn't that 17 billion?

Yep, £17.4bn.

But I think it gets lost quite how much that is.

[delmbox]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

Yep, £17.4bn.

But I think it gets lost quite how much that is.

it's about a thousand million I think

[JamesWales]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

it's about a thousand million I think

Correct!

[lardy]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

I always use thousand thousand instead of million, so people understand it properly.

But sometimes I wonder if we really appreciate what a thousand is. So I tend to say ten of ten tens and that helps a lot.

[Eric the Half a Bee]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

I genuinely don’t think there is any party politics here, as all would have done broadly the same.

But in May 2010, we borrowed £13.6bn, so not a huge difference, certainly not 10 fold. From 2008 to 2010 there was a big increase in borrowing, which slowly and successfully (finance wise) was reduced until Covid hit

But yeah, whatever financial benefits were gained from the years of austerity have certainly be lost due to Covid. As a Quiet Monkfish says, thankfully interest rates are very low.

I just find the figures extraordinary really.

I misread your figure with it being oddly done as tens of thousands of millions.

Between 2008-10 we had a massive global crash and all government spending back then was endorsed by the opposition. After he stepped down as Chancellor, George Osborne admitted if he'd been Chancellor in 2008 he'd have spent the same as the Labour government did.

Since then our national debt has almost doubled in monetary terms and rose from 65% of GDP in 2010 to 86% in 2017.

It is debatable whether there were any benefits to austerity. It put a squeeze on growth and helped delay any economic recovery.

[az city]

Re: 17,384 Million Pounds

I genuinely don’t think there is any party politics here, as all would have done broadly the same.

But in May 2010, we borrowed £13.6bn, so not a huge difference, certainly not 10 fold. From 2008 to 2010 there was a big increase in borrowing, which slowly and successfully (finance wise) was reduced until Covid hit

But yeah, whatever financial benefits were gained from the years of austerity have certainly be lost due to Covid. As a Quiet Monkfish says, thankfully interest rates are very low.

I just find the figures extraordinary really.

Oh come off it.

First, UK austerity is now widely acknowledged to have been a huge own goal and a bust (cf Joe Stiglitz).

This "amazement" at borrowing and debt levels is one of the standard rightwing tropes that emerges from time to time before they slam the poor with austerity claiming it's about controlling public finances. For context, the UK's current GDP is around 3T. In your language that's GBP 3,000,000M. Does 17,400M GBP now seem that big? I think not.

A few other things that seem missing in your picture. The UK economy is not (as Thathcer said) like a household. The National Debt never has to be repaid. That is a crass oft-peddled misunderstanding of the macroeconomy. Debt has to be serviced sustainably to maintain confidence in the currency but the debt can revolve forever. Effectively it means the UK has to cover its interest payments so the ROW is confident it will continue to do so and carry on buying its debt instruments.